making the most of my sorcerer

[NewJeffCT]

Adding a level of rogue to your sorcerer will make him less effective in melee combat, not more effective. That one level will grant you the ability to do 1d6 sneak attack damage, which will very rarely come up. It will however put you eternally down 1/2 a point of base attack bonus and will put your higher level spell acquisition back another level (and there are plenty of spells an arcane caster can cast to help them melee more effectively).

You really shouldn't be trying to melee with a sorcerer anyway, not unless you are going for a very specific character build. Since your party includes a hyperactive melee character I would simply suggest largely concentrating on spells that aren't area of effect or at least having a good enough mix that you aren't stuck with nothing to do.

Good point - and you can still control the battlefield with a good use of non area of effect spells. Maze or Otto's Irresistible Dance at level 8. Horrid Wilting is a big damage spell and is also targeted within a big 60 foot area.

For lower level spells, Telekinesis or Wall of Force have no save and can help control the field. Baleful Polymorph can be deadly if used right. Just imagine the barbarian charging into battle with 3-4 foes, only to have one be turned into a newt. Even if he gets better, it will mean the bad guys' mage or cleric had to use a dispel magic on their turn instead of using an offensive ability against the party.

 

[Mark1733]

sorcerer in melee is a bad idea

So what you are all saying is that I may not want to consider girallon's blessing and spell blossom spell combination

Okay...it's funny how all the collective advice speaks to no melee, yet their use of simple weapons is one of the "advantages" given to a sorcerer vs a wizard. Yet, it really doesn't add up that way.

I have spectral hand, so touch spells can remain at a distance. I was reading a whole other thread about the fun with Whirling Blade spell. Maybe that is an alternative? 2nd level spell...all enemies in a 60-ft line. If I could put some energy spells on the weapon? Or use magic weapons? That could be pretty potent, no? Plus, I could simply pick up bigger slashing weapons of downed foes and cast the spell.

Thoughts?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Yo! Remember I love martial arcanists!

Whirling blade is currently on the spell-list of a Clc/Sorc/Geomancer of mine, using a sickle. If the PC survives to get another 2 feats, one may be used to upgrade his weapon.

Because Whirling Blade with a nice Halberd or Greatsword- especially a magical one- is a pretty nifty use of a 2nd level slot.

A while back, in the thread, http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-rules/170081-whirling-blade-area-effect-just-effect.html, we discussed whether the spell could be used with Sculpt Spell. RAW, there really isn't a clear answer, so ask your DM.

 

[Dandu]

Okay...it's funny how all the collective advice speaks to no melee, yet their use of simple weapons is one of the "advantages" given to a sorcerer vs a wizard. Yet, it really doesn't add up that way.

Since when has anyone ever said that?

 

[Mark1733]

With the exception of Dannyalcatraz and anyone playing a warmage or similar, the general advice for a straight-up sorcerer was stay away from melee. The Player's Handbook speaks to sorcerer's simple weapon proficiency as better than a wizard--which is true but in no way a balancing factor except maybe in the first couple levels. The current philosophy in this arena seems to be slanted toward avoiding direct combat. In all those WotC books, Hennett is wielding his halfspear--but is he really using it?

By the way, Danny, my sorcerer uses a sickle too...that is why the whirling blade just sounds temptingly nasty. There is no way to involve true strike, is there?

 

[Dandu]

With the exception of Dannyalcatraz and anyone playing a warmage or similar, the general advice for a straight-up sorcerer was stay away from melee. The Player's Handbook speaks to sorcerer's simple weapon proficiency as better than a wizard--which is true but in no way a balancing factor except maybe in the first couple levels.

And the PHB also says that monks were supposed to be... yeah...

I think by now we can safely conclude that they were on something when they were writing the PHB.

The current philosophy in this arena seems to be slanted toward avoiding direct combat. In all those WotC books, Hennett is wielding his halfspear--but is he really using it?

What has been seen cannot be unseen!

By the way, Danny, my sorcerer uses a sickle too...that is why the whirling blade just sounds temptingly nasty. There is no way to involve true strike, is there?

True Strike would only work for the first attack in the sequence if I am reading the spells right.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I think that's the correct reading as well. The NASTY trick many use with Whirling Blade is to partner it with Wraithstrike, not True Strike.

As for simple weapon proficiency...that really depends upon the campaign.

Unlike the party Wizard, for instance, the Sorcerer may just be able to make use of a +3 Flaming Returning Spear that the warriors in the party pass up due to Feat selections (Focus/Specialization, Sunder, etc.) or certain RP vows. And, for the record, things like that have happened in campaigns in which I've played.

In RttToEE, my Rgr/Ftr/Div/SpellSword wound up wielding one of the nifty magical 2 handers in the game because the solo-classed Fighter already had one, the Dwarf Ftr/Clc had a vow and Feats that prevented him from using it, and the Brb/Druid was also limited by his sacred vows from using the weapon.

 

[Dandu]

As for simple weapon proficiency...that really depends upon the campaign.

Unlike the party Wizard, for instance, the Sorcerer may just be able to make use of a +3 Flaming Returning Spear that the warriors in the party pass up due to Feat selections (Focus/Specialization, Sunder, etc.) or certain RP vows. And, for the record, things like that have happened in campaigns in which I've played.

But to use the weapon effectively, you'd have to be a gish... and if you're a gish, you'd get weapon proficiencies from your melee class anyways.

 

[Mark1733]

I think that's the correct reading as well. The NASTY trick many use with Whirling Blade is to partner it with Wraithstrike, not True Strike.

I like the Wraithstrike idea. I will look to find other spells that would imbue the average mundane weapon with something greater. That will make Whirling Blade more interesting.


My character carries two weapons...a sickle and a spear of chaos +1. I don't get to use the spear hardly at all, but should someone charge at me, I could attempt to set the spear. Unfortunately, the chaos spear came from chaotic foes and works with greater effect against lawful creatures, which we never really meet. I have yet to throw this thing. My spells are better weaponry.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

But to use the weapon effectively, you'd have to be a gish... and if you're a gish, you'd get weapon proficiencies from your melee class anyways.

"Effective" is a wishy-washy word. If you're killing your foes, arguably, you're "effective."

Not every martial arcanist gets loads of WPs...Battle Sorcerers and Elven martial arcanists, for instance, have only limited WPs. Besides, in the case of the magical spear, no additional proficiency would be needed.

And not every martial arcanist involves multiclassing with a warrior class. I ran a very effective monk arcanist with a greatspear that delivered some serious hurt to a pair of Green Dragons...moreso than the party Knight. Other martial arcanist builds I've seen multiclass with divine casters or psionic classes.

Just sticking with the aforementioned magical spear, there are all kinds of things you can do with it.

1) Use it as-is. A +3 Flaming returning spear lacks oomph as compared to higher level spells, but it does have Reach, and at 1d8 + 1d6 + 3 (avg. 11pts of damage), its nothing to sneeze at if you're in combat. Even if your PC is not a gish, its better than every other melee weapon the spellcaster is likely to have, and its surgical if used at range. There's no reason for the Sorcerer NOT to carry it. Just in case.

2) There is a spell that makes your weapon larger, doing more damage and, as I recall, giving it additional reach. There are also powers & spells that make you larger, again, giving you more damage & reach.

3) If you have the Create Armor & Weapons feat, you can further enchant the weapon to improve efficacy.

4) Channel spell-energy through it, via things like Arcane Strike.

Had I chosen a Sickle instead of Spear for my example, I'd have suggested the Whirling Blade thing. An average damage of 10hp per target in a 60' line- and that's before figuring the bonus from subbing your casting stat for Str (as per the spell)- isn't bad for a 2nd level spell.