Mana users & Divine channeling

[Jack Daniel]

Given that I run a campaign with psionics, I would never use a point pool for spellcasters -- the prime balance issue being that psionic powers have one effect that doesn't change, and you can manifest that power over and over while you have points. Spells, on the other hand, can radically scale with caster level, perticularly where damage dice are concerned. The difference between a 5-die fireball and a 10-die fireball can't be balanced under a mana system.

That said, I think it wouldn't be too hard to make every class rely on spontaneous spellcasting. Use the sorcerer and the shugenja as a model, and you're in good shape.

 

[Bonedagger]

Given that I run a campaign with psionics, I would never use a point pool for spellcasters -- the prime balance issue being that psionic powers have one effect that doesn't change, and you can manifest that power over and over while you have points. Spells, on the other hand, can radically scale with caster level, perticularly where damage dice are concerned. The difference between a 5-die fireball and a 10-die fireball can't be balanced under a mana system.

Thats just a reason for not using the same pool since the spells might be different.

I don't know about psionics (Still haven't read all the rules) but the reason for scaling the magic is because of the % effect. A 1d4+1 damage seems useless at 10th level. The ECL and CR also reflect that. If that was a problem, magic wouldn't have been scaled to begin with.

Also. Any kind of spontaneous system would allow you to use your powers over and over again as long as you have the energy. I don't see your point. Is casting five Magic Misseles not manifesting your power over and over again?

It's all relative.

That said, I think it wouldn't be too hard to make every class rely on spontaneous spellcasting. Use the sorcerer and the shugenja as a model, and you're in good shape.

That's a question about what kind of feel you want in your game.

 

[Bonedagger]

BTW, I hope you don't think I'm being overly-critical. I rather like the idea of separating spell points into two (or even three!) separate pools based on the type of magic being used. This helps solve multi-classing issues. But what about multi-classing between two spell-casters of the same type (like Duirds and Clerics or Bards and Wizards)? In the PsiHB, it is recommended that the power points be pooled, but that which spells are known be tracked according to which class they are known by, as there are level-dependent effects in the individual spells.

I suggest you keep that suggestion as well and make all the spell-casting classes follow the same basic rules. So a level 1/3 Wizard/Bard might have (using my suggested psi-like spell points) 3 Mana points (2 from 1st level Wizard and an extrapolated 1 from 2nd level Bard) + stat bonuses (Int and Cha), and know 3 0-level Wizard spells, 4 0-level Bard spells, 1 1st-level Wizard spell, and 2 1st-level Bard spells.

Ahh yes. Bards and all those other casters. I agree. They shouldn't draw from the same pool even if it is the same type of magic (e.g. arcane).

Hmm... if you don't end up using the Psi-rules as I suggested I just may have to make a competing system.

An ultimatum? I love it.

No serious. There does seem to be many solid playtested things to get from psionics. Not knowing about the system I just feel reluctant to blindly embrace it. I will take a close look at it.

I am just worried that the number of spells knowen are to few. How much is spontaineous casting worth in quantity of mana? Is the difference between psionic powers and magic to big?

....... [Give me a sec. to read the psionic rules. ]

 

[Bonedagger]

Dooh. [To a close look the tables.]

The knowen spell progression is almost identical to that of the sorcerer. And every time they get a new level they get enough new points added to their pool to cast one extra of their highest level spells (Except from level 19 to 20. There they + 19 points instead of + 17 points).

Note: I have a feeling that they made this system first and then adjusted the psionic powers to fit it. To bad the document doesn't describe the powers that well. But this have been found to balanced.


My first question is that if this is a "mana" version of the sorcerer, what would the wizard then look like? Double Spells discovered and a halved pool? [Daring mathematical assumption ] So a first level wizard with 15 int would have 2 mana points and know 4+d 0-level & 1+d 1st-level spells.

And then a 20th level would have a 92 point base mana pool.


Could it be this easy?

Unfortunately I don't think so. The psionic gets access to higher level spells later than a wizard but powers identical (?) with wizard spells have been made avalible at a lower level.


[Another question is if a halved mana pool is justfied by doubling the number of spells knowen.

Or.. Is the mana pool reflected in a different powerlevel in the psionic powers.... Dammit. Need to look at those powers.

Oh yes. And also clerics.]

 

[Bonedagger]

The spellcost and progression was changed after the princip in the psionic rules.

Important note: Since similar spelleffects in the psionic system are lower level and therefore have lower cost the sytem cannot be copied to wizard. It is a question about when certain powers become avalible.

It is close to being done now. (All I need is the time)

A more free number of spells knowen are kept for now.

 

[Bonedagger]

[Newest addition. Bards, Druids and Paladins]


Bards:

The Bard is similar to the wizard except he draws from a different source of mana. Spirit Mana.

Table D / The Bards progression:

Level / Basic Spiritmana / Max spell level

1st / 1 / 0
2nd / 1 / 1st
3rd / 2 / 1st
4th / 3 / 2nd
5th / 6 / 2nd
6th / 9 / 2nd
7th / 12 / 3th
8th / 17 / 3th
9th / 22 / 3th
10th / 27 / 4th
11th / 34 / 4th
12th / 41 / 4th
13th / 48 / 5th
14th / 57 / 5th
15th / 66 / 5th
16th / 75 / 6th
17th / 86 / 6th
18th / 97 / 6th
19th / 108 / 6th
20th / 119 / 6th


Druids:

Druids use Nature Spirit (NS). Otherwise they use table C.


Paladins:

Paladins use their own type of divine channeling they call Breath of God.

Table E / The Paladins progression:

Level / Basic Breath of God / Max spell level

1st / - / -
2nd / - / -
3rd / - / -
4th / 0 / 1st
5th / 0 / 1st
6th / 1 / 1st
7th / 1 / 1st
8th / 1 / 2nd
9th / 1 / 2nd
10th / 3 / 2nd
11th / 3 / 3rd
12th / 5 / 3rd
13th / 5 / 3rd
14th / 5 / 4th
15th / 7 / 4th
16th / 8 / 4th
17th / 10 / 4th
18th / 12 / 4th
19th / 14 / 4th
20th / 21 / 4th