Manuevering in melee

[Peter Gibbons]

Here's a question: when you played previous editions of D&D, how much manuevering did you actually see in melee?

I've been playing since the 70's, and using miniatures almost from the beginning. Before battlemats became commercially available, my group constructed our own.

Nevertheless, we didn't do much maneuvering before 3e...because there simply wasn't any point. (I understand there were some optional rules for 2e that made combat more interesting, but I don't know because I wasn't playing D&D anymore at that point. It took 3e to draw me back in.) We did, however, start playing DragonQuest in the 80's, which made use of many of the kinds of rules that 3e would later develop...and maneuvered like crazy.

 

[rogueattorney]

Back in the day, when we played 1e, we did very little maneuvering in melee. Of course we were 12 years old and barely understood the rules.

When we play the game 20 years later, we don't play it the same way that we did when we were 12. We understand the rules better, and we're smarter and more creative.

So...

Fighters shield the smaller party members in the back. Thieves, rangers, halflings, elves and assassins sneak around trying to get backstabs and surprise attacks (triple attacks for missile wielders during the surprise segment is an absolute killer, as it the assassin's "death attack"). Spell casters desperately try to stay out of the melee. There's a lot more charging. A lot more non-weapon fighting (particularly effective when trying to keep a spell caster from getting a spell off - per the non-combat rules, there's a base 100% chance to overbear an unarmored man). Choice of weapons versus armor is a lot more important - some weapons (clubs, for example) are completely useless in the hands of lower leveled characters going up against plate mail. There's also a lot more running away from fights and more attempts to parley to avoid fights. And so on...

R.A.

 

[MerricB]

This thread is helping me understand why people think "tactical" combat in 3e/d20 is such a big deal.

I thought everybody played the way we did. :\

I think you've stumbled on the reason I created the thread.

I've met many people over the years who almost never used minis in D&D until 3e (I'm one myself), but I can't recall meeting any who did use minis in 1e. At convention games (back when I used to go to them), we didn't use minis.

Then I come online, and there are *masses* of people who used minis, and those who had much more dynamic combats than we did. So much so, that I feel my experiences are in the minority...

Cheers!

 

[JRRNeiklot]

We did way more stuff. Jump on tables, swing from ropes/chandeliers, dive off balconies, etc. Now, no one does anything that might draw an AOO unless he has enough ranks of tumble to get away with it. Then it's usually just tumbling to flank or avoid being flanked. In my experience AOOS drastically limit the drama, and make everyone think in terms of mechanics instead of roleplay.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

Pre-3.0, my groups would only maneuver if they were thieves looking for the backstab. Archers and spellcasters would try to avoid melee. All others would stand toe-to-toe and attack until one or the other dropped or retreated.

Now, my groups maneuver much the same as others have posted...

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

We always used mini's and the battlefields were pretty fluid...maybe more so than they are now. Longer combat rounds, no AoOs, and no regimented actions encouraged more creative stuff.

 

[The Shaman]

Then I come online, and there are *masses* of people who used minis, and those who had much more dynamic combats than we did. So much so, that I feel my experiences are in the minority...

I never played a game without minis of some sort or another, whether I was a player or a GM.

One GM in our group liked to use a hex grid for combat, while I preferred to use a bare tabletop and tape measure. (Yes, even at twelve years old, I was already old school... ) Eventually we both stuck with the hex grid after one-too-many times the table got bumped and the minis moved out of position. (If only I had a REAL sand table...)

By the time I started playing D&D, I had about two years of playing a few different minis games: a couple of Napoleonics scenarios at the LGS using borrowed formations, a WWII game for which I had two companies of armor (Shermans and Hellcat tank destroyers, plus supporting infantry), and a colonial Africa game (Zulu War, Boer War, Fashoda, etc.) in which I played the Boers and the French. The concepts of threatened areas, reach, charging, flanking, overrunning, pushing back (bull rushing), and so on where pretty firmly ingrained when we first started playing D&D, so it was an easy transition.

A couple of us experimented with Dex-based rather than Str-based fighters so that we could take advantage of improved mobility or ranged combat. My fighter was an ex-gladiator who wore light armor and relied on speed and moving to his opponents' non-shield side to get past AC whenever possible, or get behind an opponent altogether to cut it down - often this involved using cover, especially against big foes like wyverns or hydras, or some of the swashbuckling maneuvers like jumping from rocks or tables or swinging from ropes and tree limbs. Only a "dumb dwarf" or a knight would stand and take punishment in our games. We used reach weapons like spears or polearms then dropped those to close with the sword or mace. We hired men-at-arms to act as scouts, flankers, and rear guards (cannon fodder, really) when traveling in the wilderness. I know there's much more that I'm forgetting.

When I hear gamers describe how tactical 3e is compared to earlier editions, I've never really understood what the big attraction was. To me, having played a game on a bare table where we measured movements and checked for weapon reach using a tape measure, 3e (and 3.5 in particular) seems like checkers. I understand a little better that the way we gamed was a bit different from the experiences of others.

 

[Jupp]

(Yes, even at twelve years old, I was already old school... )

Priceless...consider it signaturizzled.

 

[The Shaman]

Priceless...consider it signaturizzled.

Thizzle my bizzle!

 

[tetsujin28]

I was a miniatures wargamer before I picked up D&D, so of course we used minis! Buying and painting those little lead figures was half the fun.

Word!