Manyshot question

[AGGEMAM]

I have no clue why Darklone suddenly disallows the Manyshot/Shot on the Run combo. It's perfectly legal by the rules as they are.

STANDARD ACTIONS
Attack
Making an attack is a standard action.

..

Ranged Attacks: With a ranged weapon, you can shoot or throw at any target that is within the weapon’s maximum range and in line of sight.

MANYSHOT [GENERAL]

..

Benefit: As a standard action, you may fire two arrows at a single opponent within 30 feet. Both arrows use the same attack roll (with a –4 penalty) to determine success and deal damage normally (but see Special).

SHOT ON THE RUN [GENERAL]

..

Benefit: When using the attack action with a ranged weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed.

 

[Darklone]

Its basically a move-attack-move or move-standardaction-move. The most common standard action is an attack. Could it be worded incorrectly in the the feat?

Zlorf2004

No. Shot on the Run is a move-attack-move, NOT a move-standard action-move. That's Fly-by attack.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Sure it does. You use Shot on the Run... which allows you to take an attack at any point of the movement. An attack.... not the standard action you would need to use Manyshot.

You are getting this wrong, mate.

If I use the Manyshot first means I have qualified for the Shot on the Run.

 

[Darklone]

I have no clue why DArklone suddenly disallows the Manyshot/Shot on the Run combo. It's perfectly legal by the rules as they are.

It's not suddenly. This has been discussed here pretty often and it was always agreed as not being possible

 

[Darklone]

You are getting this wrong, mate.

If I use the Manyshot first means I have qualified for the Shot on the Run.

By your definition you could use a full attack action with Shot on the Run.

 

[AGGEMAM]

It's not suddenly. This has been discussed here pretty often and it was always agreed as not being possible

Well, I haven't followed the rules section lately, so maybe that's why you all agreed on it.

I can use the feats in the order I choose, and if I use the Manyshot feat first then there is nothing stopping me from using Shot on the Run.

 

[Zlorf2004]

Manyshot and Shot on the Run

No.

Shot on the Run says: 'When using the attack action with a ranged weapon'.

And

Manyshot says: 'As a standard action, you may fire two arrows at a single opponent within 30 feet.'

These two sentences does not exclude you from using Manyshot with Shot on the Run since when you use the standard action for Manyshot you are using the attack action with a ranged weapon.

This sounds good to me and makes sense. I think wizards should have been more consistant with there wording. Why use "attack action with ranged weapon" when they could have used "ranged attack as part of a standard action" in the shot on the run.

Thanks guys
Zlorf2004

 

[AGGEMAM]

By your definition you could use a full attack action with Shot on the Run.

No.

The attack action is a subset of the standard action.

The full attack action is subset of the full round action.

Two totally dissimilar things.

 

[Darklone]

Sure it is.
If you use Manyshot... a Standard action... then you can only move and make your action or make your action and move. Using Shot on the Run prohibits anything but one ranged attack... by your reading casting a spell with a ranged touch attack is simply a ranged attack as well... but it's not. That ranged attack is a part of the spell, such as the ranged attack is a part of the standard action Manyshot.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Sure it is.
If you use Manyshot... a Standard action... then you can only move and make your action or make your action and move. Using Shot on the Run prohibits anything but one ranged attack... by your reading casting a spell with a ranged touch attack is simply a ranged attack as well... but it's not. That ranged attack is a part of the spell, such as the ranged attack is a part of the standard action Manyshot.

First. Casting a spell is it's own standard action. If this spell involves a ranged touch attack that attack is part of the casting a spell action.

Second. Shot on the run does not say you have to use this or that action. It says 'when you use the attack action with a ranged weapon'.

That's exactly what you do with Manyshot, you are using a standard action and thereby you are making an attack action with a ranged weapon, which is exactly what Shot on the Run requires.

EDIT: This is prefectly simple by the rules. And unless you can show me good evidence (such as official FAQ/Sage advice/errata) that says that using the Manyshot feat is a special standard action of its own. This is how it works.