Level Up (A5E) Martial Artistry (3pp book in the works) Ideas and Concepts

[Pedantic]

My goodness, that is frankly already so much more than I would have expected. Firstly, yes, I love it. Secondly, the mass combat roles and your use of companions has me thinking about leveraging existing A5E rules in different ways. How about Strongholds as fortifications/dungeons unto themselves? I like the idea of exploring them as physical places, or how you could leverage them in mass combat as strategically valuable points.

 

[foxblade]

I like what you've got going on here. (I don't know how I feel about the Sentinel class, but I will reserve judgement until I see).

Also, do the elemental bending maneuvers vibe like the new elementalist class or is it exclusionary (i'm thinking of multiclass stuff in the future).

I also have seen thoughts surrounding medic based combat maneuvers in the community; I was wondering if you had any ideas on this?

 

[Steampunkette]

My goodness, that is frankly already so much more than I would have expected. Firstly, yes, I love it. Secondly, the mass combat roles and your use of companions has me thinking about leveraging existing A5E rules in different ways. How about Strongholds as fortifications/dungeons unto themselves? I like the idea of exploring them as physical places, or how you could leverage them in mass combat as strategically valuable points.

That -does- seem like a lot of fun, actually, yes.

I like what you've got going on here. (I don't know how I feel about the Sentinel class, but I will reserve judgement until I see).

Also, do the elemental bending maneuvers vibe like the new elementalist class or is it exclusionary (i'm thinking of multiclass stuff in the future).

I also have seen thoughts surrounding medic based combat maneuvers in the community; I was wondering if you had any ideas on this?

Not sure what you mean by 'vibe like the elementalist' from MoAR Complete out of Purple Martin Games (shameless plug)

But the intention was to make it as available as the Arcane Knight or Eldritch Blackguard. Either classes that specifically use them or as 'magic item' drops in the form of mystical treatises. Or, y'know, asking your DM if you can use one for your Adept.

Speaking of Arcane Knight and Eldritch Blackguard... they'll be in the book, too. The contract for GPG includes 1 year of exclusivity and then I can put stuff I wrote there into my own releases so... more people will have access to those before they go into the SRD at some point!

And I -didn't- have ideas about medic maneuvers... but now I do. So... adding -that- to my list...

 

[Pedantic]

Ooh! Maybe since kind of campaigning/logistics mode leveraging some variant on the Journey/Supply rules for army management to complement your mass combat stuff? You could have army level "command" activities, and maybe do zoomed out Supplyx10 or x100 as the unit of health/expenditure.

 

[Corinnguard]

Not sure what you mean by 'vibe like the elementalist' from MoAR Complete out of Purple Martin Games (shameless plug)

Nothing to be shamed about, PMG's Elementalist class is worth talking about.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

So... wanna run a couple more concepts across y'all's desktops this Boxing day, 6 months after the last post in this thread. Here's what I've got for it so far:

an odd christmas gift, for certain, but a welcome one.

also, because it will otherwise distract me for the length of this post, i'll get this (poorly cropped) joke out of the way early:

Gunslinger: What it says on the tin. Rather than give it a bunch of strict damage-boosting abilities it's a martial-maneuver reliant gun-wielding adept/fighter, essentially. They start out with a fighting style and some exertion, but they don't get maneuvers and their standard pool 'til 2. At level one you're shooting your damaged gun and spending your "Grit" (Bonus exertion) to reduce damage or duck into cover. Later on you're building a reputation as a troublemaking gambler, a black-hearted outlaw, or a good ol' white hat. Subclasses of Bushwhacker, Desperado, and Maverick

i'm gonna be honest - i've never really liked the idea of a gunslinger class in dnd(-likes). for one it feels simultaneously a bit overly limiting and broad as a class concept (gunslingers are an extremely broad archetype, yet simultaneously they are, by their nature, restricted solely to firearms), and for another it makes guns feel like you should really only be using them if you're playing a gunslinger. it just makes things weird. but that's not really specific to the book, that's more just how i view the concept in general.

looking at what you've actually written, i have two main questions:
1. how does "grit" work? is it literally just renamed bonus exertion/focus but with different options, or does it have unique mechanics to how the bonus exertion works (e.g. special ways to regain that exertion)?
2. damaged gun?

other then that, seems neat.

Warmage: Cantrip-Caster to fulfill the role of 'quickly churned out magic artillery' concepts and gishes from the ground up. It's a d8 caster class that gets a few 'leveled spells' as essentially invocations but mostly focuses on maxing out use of cantrips and combining them with combat maneuvers instead of using weapons. You're still slinging 1d8+Int instead of Str on a given attack, though. Subclasses of Crimson Edge, Swordsage, Tactician, and Wrathbearer.

i don't have much to say about this. it's cool.

Sentinel: Echo Knights are cool and all, but what about the character concept of a duo of characters? The warrior and the mage, the knight and the squire, the guard and the princess. Even the bounty hunter and the bounty that have to work together to survive? While you can get two players to do this at the table, of course, this class allows you to do it with a companion character built into the class. Subclasses include the Adamant, Buccaneer, Cavalier, and Gaoler. And companions (which can be changed out) are Acolytes, Constructs, Cultists, Fey, Hedge Wizards, Hunters, Mages, Squires, and even the Undead for those 'Death Knights' out there. Also: Combat Synergies just for you and your companion! (This one is taking a long time 'cause I'm essentially writing additional 'small classes' for all the companions)

i'm not super big on this concept just because i think it's more appropriate for 2 players to be cooperating on such a concept then to have one player with a class that basically gives them another PC to RP (regardless of power level). there's very specific concepts where this could make sense, though, like a pair of twins whose souls are metaphysically bound together or something like that. like the gunslinger, neat.

Champion: Arena fighters, military champions, or even the champion of a noble fighting on their behalf. These characters are focused on creating one on one fights when possible, or locking down swarms of enemies to protect their friends or wards.

haha, 4e fighter go brrr. i will not complain about 4e fighter in my rpg soup.

New Combat Traditions
Deepwood Sniper for more archery and ranged combat options. Inquisitor's Brand for righteous crusaders and exorcists. Serpent's Grip for wrasslin' and grappling. Thundering Bombard for guns and cannons, specifically. And I'm still planning to do the Elemental Bending styles, but haven't got names for them, yet.

this is what i'm here for. hell yeah.

Mass Combat as Roles
Mass Combat is best with the players involved, but often gets bogged down by big rules-heavy systems. So instead make units into creatures with stat blocks and specific benefits based on their role in combat, and allow players to chose a mass combat role that keys into the NPC stat blocks.

So you'd pick one of four roles:

Artillery: Archers, Mages, Ranged Damage NPC Units
Flanker: Cavalry, Rogues, Fast Moving NPC Units
Front Line: Fighters, Ogres, Melee Damage NPC Units.
Support: Commanders, Priests, Supportive NPC Units.

Each unit has a weakness against one of the other unit types (Support has disadvantage on attacks against enemy Artillery, for example) but PC commands grant a unit advantage against two other, pre-determined, unit types (Artillery is good against Front Line and Support, for example).

Players pick the units they want to command and go on through the encounter, giving directions for who their unit should attack. This can be done either as a purely-mass combat structure... Or:

Mass Combat as Dungeons
Yup. Mass combat as dungeons involves setting up various battle-set-pieces largely as backdrops on the action between the players and their objectives. Whether that's killing an enemy commander, taking a wall from NPC soldiers, or otherwise performing dungeon-activities on a battlefield. The Mass Combat Roles still apply, but act as a 'timer' for players to succeed at a goal before their forces are "overwhelmed" and forced to retreat, ending the encounter.

The party then has to choose whether to continue fighting for their objective (with increased personal danger) or retreat with their forces to safety.

ok, this is just super cool.

New Weaponry
Mostly guns. Specifically guns that are more or less balanced against standard A5e weapons like swords and axes. Meant to be used in settings where firearms are more common and less "Oh my gosh look at this super rare item, better make it really good and slap a 300gp price tag boost on it!"

question: what eras of guns are being included? is it just medieval/renaissance firearms? napoleonic? late victorian? further?

1) Do you like this content?

i can take or leave the gunslinger and sentinel conceptually, but that's just due to my own biases - if they're even half as good as the esper, they'll be solid. everything else sounds awesome.

2) What else would you like to see in the book?

this might already get covered by the two ranged traditions you have, but i'd really like to see an aggressive mobility/trick shot focused ranged maneuver tradition. think john woo movies mixed with gun fu.

 

[Steampunkette]

an odd christmas gift, for certain, but a welcome one.

also, because it will otherwise distract me for the length of this post, i'll get this (poorly cropped) joke out of the way early:
View attachment 341798

i'm gonna be honest - i've never really liked the idea of a gunslinger class in dnd(-likes). for one it feels simultaneously a bit overly limiting and broad as a class concept (gunslingers are an extremely broad archetype, yet simultaneously they are, by their nature, restricted solely to firearms), and for another it makes guns feel like you should really only be using them if you're playing a gunslinger. it just makes things weird. but that's not really specific to the book, that's more just how i view the concept in general.

looking at what you've actually written, i have two main questions:
1. how does "grit" work? is it literally just renamed bonus exertion/focus but with different options, or does it have unique mechanics to how the bonus exertion works (e.g. special ways to regain that exertion)?
2. damaged gun?

other then that, seems neat.

i don't have much to say about this. it's cool.

i'm not super big on this concept just because i think it's more appropriate for 2 players to be cooperating on such a concept then to have one player with a class that basically gives them another PC to RP (regardless of power level). there's very specific concepts where this could make sense, though, like a pair of twins whose souls are metaphysically bound together or something like that. like the gunslinger, neat.

haha, 4e fighter go brrr. i will not complain about 4e fighter in my rpg soup.

this is what i'm here for. hell yeah.

ok, this is just super cool.

question: what eras of guns are being included? is it just medieval/renaissance firearms? napoleonic? late victorian? further?

i can take or leave the gunslinger and sentinel conceptually, but that's just due to my own biases - if they're even half as good as the esper, they'll be solid. everything else sounds awesome.

this might already get covered by the two ranged traditions you have, but i'd really like to see an aggressive mobility/trick shot focused ranged maneuver tradition. think john woo movies mixed with gun fu.

Long post is long and also honest!

1) Yeah. Valda's Spire is great. The Warmage for me came out of working on the Esper, though. And the Gunslinger was a Pathfinder 1e class that I enjoyed the few times I played it. But I won't lie! I look at how other people do the concepts I'm thinking of in order to make sure what I'm doing is both interesting and fun, so I have looked through Valda's to see how they did it and do some comparing/contrasting.

We hit a lot of the same notes, but the melody is different, I feel.

2) Grit is bonus exertion, like an Adept or Fighter gets. But. They also get a few special moves to use it with. Starting at level 1:

At 7th level they get Dustkiss and Hostage Taker as options. Essentially improved evasion as a reaction, and the ability to gain 3/4 cover while grappling. And, finally, at 15 they can spend a grit to get an extra roll on a Con or Wis save.

But they can also use their Grit for combat maneuvers. So it's -kind- of like how Adepts get their Exertion Focus but they're all defensive uses rather than offensive uses.

3) Damaged Gun. They just start out with a Gun in addition to their starting kit. But it has the damaged property 'til they have the time (and resources) to fix it. If it gets damaged, again, before that point it becomes Broken, instead. Just using the A5e equipment maintenance rules.

4) Sentinel concept. Sure, that's a way to do it. Or you could have the DM do the RP for the companion-character while you manage their actions and such in combat. But it's also meant to be a companion you -can- change. Or get a new one if your companion dies. (Though eventually they get the ability to revive each other at the cost of Fatigue instead of Diamonds). The other thing I really like about it is that these weaker secondary characters -could- make for a fun one-shot type thing. Or a "Low Power" game, since they're essentially all (very weak) classes.

5) VERY 4e fighter, yes. I'm trying to take some of the really good stuff from 4e, like marking, to bring into A5e. S'why the Arcane Knight and Eldritch Blackguard both get marking effects as part of their Tier 1 maneuvers!

6) Gun Era: Multiple. Different tables for different eras. And, of course, new mechanics. Like "Burst Fire" which turns a ranged attack into a Dex Save for half damage. To be perfectly blunt, I'm -hoping- to start working on a campaign setting with more gunslingy stuff in it and make it less of a "Rural Europe" fantasy setting without it just being "Cowboys and Racist Theft of Native American Mythology". So I'm making stuff in this book to use in that setting, too.

7) Trickshot Combat Style... alright. I'll see what I can do, there... That -does- seem like a lot of fun, after all.

 

[Pedantic]

4) Sentinel concept. Sure, that's a way to do it. Or you could have the DM do the RP for the companion-character while you manage their actions and such in combat. But it's also meant to be a companion you -can- change. Or get a new one if your companion dies. (Though eventually they get the ability to revive each other at the cost of Fatigue instead of Diamonds). The other thing I really like about it is that these weaker secondary characters -could- make for a fun one-shot type thing. Or a "Low Power" game, since they're essentially all (very weak) classes.

I was immediately put in mind of the Captain from Fantasy Craft. They have something like battle plans that function as aura buffs, and specifically get a "personal lieutenant" NPC to where they have to someone appropriate to use them on.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

2) Grit is bonus exertion, like an Adept or Fighter gets. But. They also get a few special moves to use it with. Starting at level 1:
View attachment 341800

is duck and roll meant to be a better practiced roll? i mean if so then fair enough (i wouldn't be surprised if gunslingers didn't get razor's edge as a tradition option after all), but they seem really close.

6) Gun Era: Multiple. Different tables for different eras. And, of course, new mechanics. Like "Burst Fire" which turns a ranged attack into a Dex Save for half damage. To be perfectly blunt, I'm -hoping- to start working on a campaign setting with more gunslingy stuff in it and make it less of a "Rural Europe" fantasy setting without it just being "Cowboys and Racist Theft of Native American Mythology". So I'm making stuff in this book to use in that setting, too.

kinda funny that you're making stuff for this book for your own setting - i was actually waiting for this book so i could use it for the zeitgeist game i wanna run eventually. i did actually write up my own guns for that (basically bumping up the firearms tech level of the setting to match most of the rest of it because the discrepancy bothered me), but i'm not exactly an experienced game designer, so if yours are better (which is quite likely, frankly) i might just use them instead.

7) Trickshot Combat Style... alright. I'll see what I can do, there... That -does- seem like a lot of fun, after all.

 

[Corinnguard]

Warmage: Cantrip-Caster to fulfill the role of 'quickly churned out magic artillery' concepts and gishes from the ground up. It's a d8 caster class that gets a few 'leveled spells' as essentially invocations but mostly focuses on maxing out use of cantrips and combining them with combat maneuvers instead of using weapons. You're still slinging 1d8+Int instead of Str on a given attack, though. Subclasses of Crimson Edge, Swordsage, Tactician, and Wrathbearer.

I think you might want to change the name of this class just so no one confuses it with the Warmage archetype for the A5e Wizard. https://a5e.tools/rules/warmage

2) What else would you like to see in the book?

Synergy feat chains involving the classes you'll be introducing in Martial Artistry?

A Gunmage archetype for the Wizard? It could be something like PF1's Spellslinger archetype for the Wizard. https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo-wizard-archetypes/spellslinger