D&D 5E Martial, Magic or Mundane? What can X do in 5e

[frankthedm]

I agree that martial characters should have limits; they should stretch the boundaries of what's possible in the real world, but not go careening past them. Conan good, Hercules bad.

You must spread some Experience Points around before giving it to Dausuul again

 

[Lanefan]

Wow, am I the only one who enjoys characters who feel like they stepped out of legend?

At high level, fine; but at low-mid level they are still working up to it.

It's a tough issue, though; at high levels either one has to take the martial types way beyond the fence (think Hercules) or dial back magic to a point many would find somewhat dull given the tradition of how the game has worked.

Either that, or at higher levels the martial types' role changes: their goal becomes not to defeat the foe directly, but to protect the casters so they can do it, and-or to focus on and disrupt enemy casters. And this doesn't work for everyone either.

Lanefan

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Either that, or at higher levels the martial types' role changes: their goal becomes not to defeat the foe directly, but to protect the casters so they can do it, and-or to focus on and disrupt enemy casters. And this doesn't work for everyone either.

this is got to be a bad joke...

I mean who wants to sign up to be a glorfied body guard well someone else gets all the glory.

Let me turn this around, what story did Arthur protect merlin well he handled the battle?

 

[Lanefan]

this is got to be a bad joke...

I mean who wants to sign up to be a glorfied body guard well someone else gets all the glory.

I did say it didn't work for everyone...

Let me turn this around, what story did Arthur protect merlin well he handled the battle?

In Arthur's world, were it a game system, the system balance is very heavily skewed away from magic.

Tolkein is a better example - there's lots of heroic martial types but in the end they are led by casters (Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron). The balance there is that there are so few casters; in D&D every party has one or two and most towns have more, and so magic - for better or worse - tends to take over.

Lan-"sometimes a Longsword +2, Wizardslayer is a really good friend"-efan

 

[Gort]

Perhaps the non-caster characters should get an absolute ton of resistances and immunities to represent their physical prowess and difficulty to bring down? They certainly need something.

Rogue-type characters should be an absolute nightmare to target with magic - always moving quickly, full of tricks like blinding powders and other alchemy. Meanwhile the warrior has by high level been the target of every hostile effect under the sun - dragon breath, drow poisons, every type of weapon imaginable, and magic of every kind. He should be shrugging off spell after spell - a wizard's nightmare.

I think this might be the only way to keep martial characters balanced with magical ones without letting them overcome human limits in the areas of mobility, visibility and so on - make them extremely hard to bring down or otherwise defeat using magic.

 

[mlund]

Eh, Elminster, Gandalf, and Merlin are the arcane analogs of Heracles and the like. The fact that AD&D let you play one but not the other always seemed like pandering to bookish nerd wish-fulfillment fantasies to me.

You put in your time being a weakling and soon it's: "Now everyone respects me and how smart I am - sweet, sweet vindication!" It is then followed by "You there, strongman, polish my boots. You, preacher-man, go make me a sandwich. Oh, and tell me how awesome and powerful I am again."

I think D&D gets way more out of being a balanced, cooperative, and social game focused on teamwork and shared narrative than it does from any "realism" about how special spell-casters are vs. everyone else.

- Marty Lund

 

[FireLance]

Perhaps the non-caster characters should get an absolute ton of resistances and immunities to represent their physical prowess and difficulty to bring down? They certainly need something.

Rogue-type characters should be an absolute nightmare to target with magic - always moving quickly, full of tricks like blinding powders and other alchemy. Meanwhile the warrior has by high level been the target of every hostile effect under the sun - dragon breath, drow poisons, every type of weapon imaginable, and magic of every kind. He should be shrugging off spell after spell - a wizard's nightmare.

I think this might be the only way to keep martial characters balanced with magical ones without letting them overcome human limits in the areas of mobility, visibility and so on - make them extremely hard to bring down or otherwise defeat using magic.

While all these are fine abilities, they're also somewhat passive and might not appeal to all players. I'm starting to think that a better approach might be to have the non-magical classes grant purely Heroic-level (though level-scalable) powers. So, a fighter might get power strike dealing +1[W] at 1st level, +2[W] and 11th level, and +3[W] at 21st level.

Then, at Paragon level, allow Paragon Paths (or some equivalent) to grant access to a greater variety of power options, and have different Paragon Paths that are suitable for a variety of playstyles: gonzo Wuxia-type powers for those who want them, paths that grant the character access to another power source who want their characters to keep pace with the magical PCs but do not want gonzo Martial abilities, and others with more passive abilities for those who prefer that style of play.

 

[Hassassin]

Yea "fighters cant have nice things" I love burn notice I even have an assasin based off him. I hate the idea of limits though. How many wizaards are all powerful in fantasy or myth and fear no warrior?

Exactly, wizards shouldn't be all powerful. Saying fighters shouldn't have supernatural or superhero abilities (before epic levels) doesn't mean fighters should be underpowered. Wizards shouldn't have overpowered abilities either. However, wizards should have magical abilities, while fighters should have non-magical.

(Mundane is a loaded word.)

 

[jasin]

While all these are fine abilities, they're also somewhat passive and might not appeal to all players. I'm starting to think that a better approach might be to have the non-magical classes grant purely Heroic-level (though level-scalable) powers. So, a fighter might get power strike dealing +1[W] at 1st level, +2[W] and 11th level, and +3[W] at 21st level.

Then, at Paragon level, allow Paragon Paths (or some equivalent) to grant access to a greater variety of power options, and have different Paragon Paths that are suitable for a variety of playstyles: gonzo Wuxia-type powers for those who want them, paths that grant the character access to another power source who want their characters to keep pace with the magical PCs but do not want gonzo Martial abilities, and others with more passive abilities for those who prefer that style of play.

Oh god please yes.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I want my Fighters to become legendary heroes that can do things that is not possible in the real world. I think at some level, it is just foolish to pretend that the Fighter is not a "superhero", essentially. But, in a fantasy world, that doesn't mean that his powers are strictly "magical". It is just that the rules of the fantasy world differ from the rules of the real world. The fantasy world allows Beowulf to be a non-magical guy, even though he pulls of feats that no one in reality can.