D&D 5E Martial, Magic or Mundane? What can X do in 5e

[Aenghus]

While arguments have focused on magic being broken in combat, it's also broken out of combat, which is relevant given how many people have asked for more non-combat emphasis in the new edition.

I've played and run a number of games that went to high levels, and it was noticeable that the spellcasters had much more agency and breadth of action in all parts of the game, in and out of combat. This was particularly noticeable for mid-to-high level wizards, who could teleport anywhere, spy on anyone, charm most NPCs, pry out secrets, polymorph etc etc.

While other classes can some do of these things, wizards in 3e or earlier are the only class that can do everything (with some preparation). And that's too much flexibility.

DMs have to put special obstacles into the game to restrict such tactics. Some Dm's don't allowing PC wizards to dominate the setting. While it's true wizards are vulnerable when their defenses are down, they aren't when prepared, and they are sufficiently vulnerable that dropping their defenses makes them too easy to kill.



Non-spellcasters have specialities and should be able to compete with spellcasters in their specialities, or even be better.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I think that D&D needs to get away from the idea that martial characters are somehow "mundane", at least in the real world sense.

I think 5e would benfit from a mundane set up, if you are mundane you are a minon, and only have basic attacks... that way Martial is seen as diffrent and MORE powerful.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

While arguments have focused on magic being broken in combat, it's also broken out of combat, which is relevant given how many people have asked for more non-combat emphasis in the new edition.

I've played and run a number of games that went to high levels, and it was noticeable that the spellcasters had much more agency and breadth of action in all parts of the game, in and out of combat. This was particularly noticeable for mid-to-high level wizards, who could teleport anywhere, spy on anyone, charm most NPCs, pry out secrets, polymorph etc etc.

While other classes can some do of these things, wizards in 3e or earlier are the only class that can do everything (with some preparation). And that's too much flexibility.

DMs have to put special obstacles into the game to restrict such tactics. Some Dm's don't allowing PC wizards to dominate the setting. While it's true wizards are vulnerable when their defenses are down, they aren't when prepared, and they are sufficiently vulnerable that dropping their defenses makes them too easy to kill.



Non-spellcasters have specialities and should be able to compete with spellcasters in their specialities, or even be better.

The only really viable way to do this that I've come across is niche specialization. There simply are NO such thing as general casters, you have a niche and you can only perform magic within that niche. There can be a small general core of utility functions that all casters can perform like detecting magic, dispelling magic, identifying magical effects, and such. However if you say decide to be an enchanter you get mind control type magic. It can be STRONG, but it is all you get. Want to toss around some direct damage? Tough, it isn't your shtick and you simply can't do it (beyond possibly Magic Missile as an at-will fallback core function of all wizards). Likewise an evoker can be out there blazing away with fireballs, but he can't charm the lowliest goblin, teleport, or really anything else. He can have an amazing variety of ways to blast stuff to bits but that's the only shtick he gets.

The result of that is your wizard can be as potent as any other character within his sphere of operation. The evoker is every bit as capable a damage dealer as the fighter, but when they are not fighting they're both at the same level, using their skills and RP etc to make their way through the world. Likewise the enchanter can be an amazing resource, charming the pants off anyone as well as the greatest bard ever could, but when you need to get across the 80' wide chasm he's also no more useful than said bard.

Failing that all you can do is just really really nerf casting all to heck. 4e proved you can tweak things to the point where casters still do a lot but don't dominate or break combat, but it hasn't really proven you can do it in a way that doesn't either give them incredible agency or else make them seem rather less than magical outside of a fight.