Mass Effect 3 (SPOILERS!)

[Dog Moon]

His only regret was never seeing all his little blue children.

Haha. You and my roommate. He said the same thing.

The Normandy thing was what confused me the most. Especially since Liara was there... but she was in my party. Like... how did she go from running after me to get to the Citadel to running away with the Normandy? Doesn't make any freaking sense...

 

[Kzach]

The Normandy thing was what confused me the most. Especially since Liara was there... but she was in my party. Like... how did she go from running after me to get to the Citadel to running away with the Normandy? Doesn't make any freaking sense...

Your team-mates weren't in the final push to the transit-beam.

I actually took Javik and EDI because I felt that they were the easiest to sacrifice. EDI would survive since she was effectively only partially in EVA and Javik was going to commit suicide anyway and his entire life revolved around getting vengeance before he did. All the other team-mates had something to lose and I wasn't about to take Liara into certain death with me.

Besides that, EDI is by far the most useful team-mate on pretty much any mission. The combination of Incinerate and Overload as well as a powerful defensive ability in Defensive Matrix made her basically indispensable. I pretty much took her on every mission and only swapped the third slot depending on what the mission was and even then, I mostly just took my bro Garrus. Shooting THROUGH cover and still killing with one shot is just awesome

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

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[Remus Lupin]

Why?

Because you spend three games bringing together the warring factions of the galaxy to fight a common threat, only to have that all completely undone at the last minute, since your sacrifice makes almost all interstellar travel impossible.

I'm assuming that the energy colour is blue for paragon, red for renegade. The relays weren't 'blown up', their energy was utilised to spread the 'solution'. Of course the relays themselves would break apart and the venting of combustible gasses would cause small explosions, but it wasn't a supernova explosion. Kinda thought that was obvious.

Well, that's nice, but it's not what the game explicitly says.

Err... he was outrunning the "OMG, what the Hell is that massive burst of red/green/blue energy coming towards us?! EVASIVE MANOEUVRES!"

Again, kinda thought that was self-explanatory, especially given the movie SHOWING it.

Really? Where was the movie explicitly showing the entire crew of the Normandy (who were on earth), hightailing it back to the ship, and then Joker LEAVING THE SOLAR SYSTEM in order to get to the Mass Relay, then entering the Mass Relay, only to have it explode behind him? The sequence of events as presented in the last portion of the game don't allow for this to happen in any reasonable time frame. It's not like the Mass Relays exploded a week later. They exploded instantaneously, as far as anything the game tells you would lead you to believe.

Eh, I'll admit that I haven't seen the paragon or renegade endings but from what I gather, they're basically the same bar being blue or red coloured. I get that people are butt-hurt over that, but I don't really see a need to be.

I'm possibly on the extreme end of the scale when it comes to fanboism of this series. I've played ME1 and 2 so many times through that I've literally lost count. I've played it on every difficulty, with every class, and every combination of paragon, renegade, renegon and paragade Shepards. Romanced every character, even Ashley who I personally think is a disgusting example of humanity. If there was anyone who should be butt-hurt over a poor ending, it should be me. And yet, I found it to be quite satisfying and more than expected.

Honestly, all this moaning is the reason why we don't get very much GOOD science fiction. Good science fiction doesn't answer every question or lead us by the noses to the 'right' conclusions. It's the difference between Moon and Star Wars: All Three Prequels.

It's not about answering every question. It's about not answering the questions in a self-consistent or narratively satisfying way.

I'll also note one more thing about the destruction of the Mass Relays -- Doing that leaves the Krogan stuck on a devastated earth along with the remainder of the human race, and the Turian forces. What are those guys going to eat? And as for "spreading the solution" again, the game explicitly says the relays are destroyed, and it explicitly shows their destruction. There's no way to dodge that the relays are absolutely destroyed, with no consideration of the consequences of that decision for the Galaxy. How's Buzz Aldren's grandson going to see the stars "soon" when there's no effective interstellar travel and no way to get it, since it was established very early on in the series that the capacity for creating Mass Relays is far beyond the capacity of any sentient race in the galaxy?

I think this guys review sums it up well for me:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H_A7SeawU4]Mass Effect 3 Ending and Why We Hate It! - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Kzach]

Because you spend three games bringing together the warring factions of the galaxy to fight a common threat, only to have that all completely undone at the last minute, since your sacrifice makes almost all interstellar travel impossible.

Erm... no you don't. You spend one game trying to get everyone to work together. The other two had virtually nothing at all to do with galactic diplomacy other than as a method to provide character conflict.

You spend three games trying to defeat the threat of galactic extinction of the most advanced races. All three endings provide that conclusion, do they not?

Well, that's nice, but it's not what the game explicitly says.

Really? Where was the movie explicitly showing the entire crew of the Normandy (who were on earth), hightailing it back to the ship, and then Joker LEAVING THE SOLAR SYSTEM in order to get to the Mass Relay, then entering the Mass Relay, only to have it explode behind him? The sequence of events as presented in the last portion of the game don't allow for this to happen in any reasonable time frame. It's not like the Mass Relays exploded a week later. They exploded instantaneously, as far as anything the game tells you would lead you to believe.

It's not about answering every question.

Wow. Kinda hard to argue with someone who can't even see the trees for the forest. You want every question answered... and then you claim you don't want every question answered. Which one is it?

It's about not answering the questions in a self-consistent or narratively satisfying way.

Ahh, now we're getting to the crux of the matter. What this is really about is that you didn't get the answers that you WANT, or like; hate to break this to you, but the world doesn't always hand you everything on a silver platter.

I'll also note one more thing about the destruction of the Mass Relays -- Doing that leaves the Krogan stuck on a devastated earth along with the remainder of the human race, and the Turian forces. What are those guys going to eat?

Still not looking for those answers, huh?

And as for "spreading the solution" again, the game explicitly says the relays are destroyed, and it explicitly shows their destruction. There's no way to dodge that the relays are absolutely destroyed, with no consideration of the consequences of that decision for the Galaxy.

Still looking...

Destroyed and going supernova are slightly different things, don't you think? I can destroy C4 without it turning me into sloppy chunks of dirt and meat. One doesn't necessarily necessitate the other.

How's Buzz Aldren's grandson going to see the stars "soon" when there's no effective interstellar travel and no way to get it, since it was established very early on in the series that the capacity for creating Mass Relays is far beyond the capacity of any sentient race in the galaxy?

Again with the looking...

Someone did it. It is inferred that someone created the Reapers and that they came up with the 'solution' of the cycle. Whoever created the Reapers also probably created, or had a hand in, the mass relays. Saying that nobody could ever evolve the knowledge or understanding to do is patently absurd. It is even stated in the series that the Protheans almost unlocked the secrets of the mass relays but were destroyed before doing so and it is also stated that the Asari government kept the Prothean VI for themselves and even then, kept it a secret from their own people, thus limiting that cycle's understanding of the Reaper-tech.

But you're not looking for answers, are you?

 

[Remus Lupin]

You know Kzach, I read your posts in a lot of threads, and you've always got plenty of snark and insult to go around. I've said my piece. Others can respond to you if they like.

Since I started this thread specifically because you complained about the other one, I'm just going to go ahead and move forward with reading other peoples' replies. I'm glad you liked the game. So did I. I hope they make more in that universe. But I'm far from the only one who has noticed these problems.

 

[Kzach]

You know Kzach, I read your posts in a lot of threads, and you've always got plenty of snark and insult to go around. I've said my piece. Others can respond to you if they like.

If I've insulted you then feel free to report me. I'm on a very short leash and will probably be banned if I'm reported again.

But I don't think I did insult you. Which leads me to conclude that my arguments have merit. After all, when you can no longer argue your case, attack your opponent.

Yay! I win!

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

If I've insulted you then feel free to report me. I'm on a very short leash and will probably be banned if I'm reported again.

But I don't think I did insult you. Which leads me to conclude that my arguments have merit. After all, when you can no longer argue your case, attack your opponent.

Yay! I win!

Congratulations to your win.

Now, once again, why the frack did the Normandy fly away from Earth in the middle of a crucial battle and try to escape that Mass Relay shockwave?

Also, there are some possible endings (you probably didn't have that ending, so I understand you don't know) where in fact crew members step of the ship that were with you during the final push. How did they make it back to the ship? They should either be dead or aboard the Crucible with you and Anderson.

The game was pretty awesome, and there are aspects of the ending I like. But some of it doesn't really make sense.

I don't even mind that the Mass Relays are destroyed. Sounds interesting, having a depopulated Earth with countless of Citadel races stranded there.

And there are still the Quantum Entanglement Communciation Devices. Could mean a new, transhuman future where people transfer copies of themselves to other worlds (fits perfect with the Synthesis ending).

OF course, it doesn'T make sense to me that the "Destroy Reaper" option also destroys EDI and the Geth and all individuals with Cybernetics.
Or that Synthesis actualyl solves the problem of the created eventually ending up fighting their creators - can half-synthetics not create artifical lifeforms?

 

[Piratecat]

Guys, enough with the snark. I know people feel passionately about ME3, but please don't channel that into aggression in here.

 

[Kzach]

Now, once again, why the frack did the Normandy fly away from Earth in the middle of a crucial battle and try to escape that Mass Relay shockwave?

Two things:-

1) I already gave an answer for this but I'll do so again: if you saw a shockwave of unknown energy rushing towards you, wouldn't you try to escape it? The movie cutscene shows the Normandy trying to outrace the wave which says to me that they didn't know what it would do and were scared of the consequences, ie. they thought it would kill them. Or do you think that they should just sit there and trust all shockwaves of unknown energy types coming towards them?

2) Like I said to Lupin, why do you need to have every question answered? There are a billion possible solutions to all the questions posed by the fans but people are assuming that there can't be an answer solely because whatever answer is given will not satisfy them, not because the answers aren't possible, logical or reasonable.

Also, there are some possible endings (you probably didn't have that ending, so I understand you don't know) where in fact crew members step of the ship that were with you during the final push. How did they make it back to the ship? They should either be dead or aboard the Crucible with you and Anderson.

Again, I answered this. In the final run to the teleportation beam, you aren't with your squad. The other two have returned to the Normandy. I really don't see why people turn that into such a big problem when it's happened before in the series.

As for the ending I got, Joker got off the Normandy with EDI and EDI was part of the team I took to Earth. I had an EMS of 8,500 (with 100% galactic readiness) so I had the best possible ending. It didn't jar at all for me because I knew she wasn't with me in that final run to the teleportation beam. And if I was on the Normandy, damn sure I'd be trying to outrun a shockwave of unknown energy type regardless of who was left on the planet.

OF course, it doesn'T make sense to me that the "Destroy Reaper" option also destroys EDI and the Geth and all individuals with Cybernetics. Or that Synthesis actualyl solves the problem of the created eventually ending up fighting their creators - can half-synthetics not create artifical lifeforms?

Again, these aren't questions that need to be answered by the game or the developers. Fill in the gaps with your imagination. There are so many possible answers that we, the audience, simply don't need to be lead by the nose to every single conclusion. At the end of the day, NONE of Mass Effect makes any sense. Eezo doesn't exist. The relays violate every known scientific law. Reapers aren't going to hail from the skies and destroy galactic civilisations every 50,000 years. And why 50,000 years? Does that even make sense?

Examine any fictional creation close enough and you'll find holes. Yet people are only doing it to Mass Effect NOW? After three iterations? I don't think people are doing that because there's anything legitimately wrong with the franchise or the endings. I think they're doing that because they didn't get the happy-happy-joy-joy endings that they wanted. Personally, I'm glad Bioware went with what I feel was the right ending instead of the 'feel good' ending. And nothing about the last levels jars for me.