Maths errors in RPGs

[mattcolville]

I have to wonder how these errors in stat blocks are made.

John reviewed a product we published at Margaret Weis Productions and I thought we had nailed the skill bonuses. Apparently, we totally didn't. How does that happen?

And why isn't there some amazing tool that can help with this? WotC clearly doesn't have one!

Cheers,
Cam

That tool would be an electronic solution. A tool. And WotC has no tools team. Maybe the electronic initiative will change that?

WotC's tools are all proprietary 3rd party tools. Microsoft Word, Excel, Photoshop, InDesign.

 

[Cam Banks]

I think that's a rather narrow view of what objective proofreaders are capable of and, perhaps, sheds a bit of light on why many more errors sneak into RPG books than say, college course books. Objective, third-party, proofreaders are hired to examine whole texts in other sectors of publishing -- not just descriptive text.

Are they expected to know how to proofread game rules? That'd be a new one.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[mattcolville]

There is such a tool! It is called a "proofreader"

Expecting a proofreader to validate statblocks would be like expecting a proofreader to debug C++ code.

 

[kenobi65]

Expecting a proofreader to validate statblocks would be like expecting a proofreader to debug C++ code.

Chuckle. I'm on the campaign staff for a non-RPGA Living-style campaign (Legends of the Shining Jewel), and my specific role with the campaign is stat block editing for our modules. The rest of the editing process is handled by different folks; they hand the stat blocks off to me to debug.

I'd probably be reasonably good at doing the job of proofreading, too, but one of my strengths is that I'm pretty good at understanding the rules (and how character builds work), and it's something that our other editors aren't necessarily great at.

I catch a lot of errors; I highly doubt I catch 'em all. But, at least the ones I catch ensure that the NPCs and monsters are materially "correct" in how they work.

(My biggest problem with incorrect stat blocks in WotC books is that I have certain players who want to believe that the stat-blocks are 100% gospel-truth, and if a sample NPC in Complete Whozitz has certain stats, then their PC with the same PrC should have them, too.)

 

[jdrakeh]

Expecting a proofreader to validate statblocks would be like expecting a proofreader to debug C++ code.

No, that would be like expecting a code checker to debug C++ code. You're comparing apples to oranges. If you're not hiring RPG proofreaders capable of finding errors in the text of a RPG, I submit that your standards for proofreaders are frightfully lax.

[Note: Typographic errors of a numeric nature are no less typographic errors and, as such, are the domain of proofreaders. That a proofreader is familiar with conventions of a text that they are proofreadingis expected. If you aren't expecting or demanding this, you're not hiring the right kind of proofreaders.]

Still, RPG publishing stupifies me in many other respects with regard to production -- for instance, I'm not certain that I've seen much of a divide between copy editing, substantive editing, or devlopmental editing in the RPG industry. In other sectors of publishing, these are all very different things -- in RPGs they frequently fall under one umbrella.

Again, I think that the steps taken to streamline pre-production editing in RPGs (while possibly necessary) are the major contributors to post-production errors absent in many other printed products.

 

[Numion]

I wouldn't care about the stat block errors either, but every time WotC makes such an error god kills a puppy.

 

[JoeGKushner]

To be fair, WotC isn't alone here -- and some companies simply dont provide errata. Green Ronin, for example, has no official compilation of errata for The Black Company book (I compiled an unofficial errata PDF for the product, but that's not the same thing), while Torchlight Games released errata for Dangerquest and then later yanked it from circulation (apparently because it called attention to the fact that Dangerquest was an error-riddled product that should have been held back for more editing prior to release). WotC, despite being slow with errata, has a much better handle on it than some publishers.

And yet isn't WoTC one of the largest, no, the largest company?

What was their last errata for and when was it put up?

Look at Monster Manual. The errors in the se didn't bother me that much because people buying that book are buying it to have a collector's edition but it's been YEARS since the 1st printing and tons of errors still got through. That's almost willful ignorance.

 

[Cam Banks]

No, that would be like expecting a code checker to debug C++ code. You're comparing apples to oranges. If you're not hiring proofreaders capable of finding errors in the text of a game, I submit that your standards for proofreaders are frightfully lax.

No, I actually think he has hit the nail right on the head.

The best proofreaders we've experienced have come to us for questions regarding style use in stat blocks, spelling of feats and skills and special abilities, and so forth, but aren't expected to sit there and check the math, synergy bonuses, etc of the stat block. I'm not sure what kind of superhuman proofreader does that.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[mattcolville]

No, that would be like expecting a code checker to debug C++ code. You're comparing apples to oranges. If you're not hiring proofreaders capable of finding errors in the text of a game, I submit that your standards for proofreaders are frightfully lax.

Code and stat blocks are functionally they same for this purpose. They're both an expression of an arcane, non-English, ruleset. If I asked an editor, any typical editor working in books today, to explain the contents of a D&D statblock, they'd be no more likely to even understand it than they would Code.

Now, I could give them the instructions for building a statblock, the statblock manual we call the three Core Rulebooks, which are in English but then I could also give them a C++ manual. Same thing.

 

[jdrakeh]

No, I actually think he has hit the nail right on the head.

The best proofreaders we've experienced have come to us for questions regarding style use in stat blocks, spelling of feats and skills and special abilities, and so forth, but aren't expected to sit there and check the math, synergy bonuses, etc of the stat block. I'm not sure what kind of superhuman proofreader does that.

Cheers,
Cam

I edited my post above to better explain my position.