Mature content

[Aus_Snow]

There are all kinds of subjects and scenes that can (and probably will) come up specifically in settings wherein the major players (and uh, their players) are all adults. IOW, most RPG settings.

So yeah, I'm all for having the game stuff there to deal with such things. No, I don't mean you need a bunch of stats for everyone shagging all over the place all the time. Having the stuff there doesn't mean spamming it. . . one might hope.


Also. . .

Don't go pitchforks and torches on me, but Book of Erotic Fantasy is what brought me into D&D. Before it accidentally got in my paws, I thought that D&D is only about solving problems with force. "Slay that group of monster because <insert blunt reason here>" and stuff. BoEF showed me that how D&D can handle completely different games, how naturally game mechanics can resolve non-combat situations and how non-standard races aren't just dummies for slaughter.

I don't know about the game balance there (I didn't know D&D mechanics at all when I read it), but it seemed mature in a good way, aimed at adult-mind audience. It least it did me a great good of drawing my attention to D&D.

(It's just a description of my life experience and isn't an attempt to defend BoEF. Strictly IMHO.)

Kudos (and XP ) for: a) knowing your subject matter in the first place; and b) expressing clearly your thoughts on said matter. Refreshing, on both counts.

Personally, I thought the 'art' in the BoEF was rather unfortunate in places. Actual art (even mediocre stuff) would have been better, IMO. And some of the written content, again, a bit unfortunate I guess. Still, at the time, it was a bold move, and in some ways I'm glad the book was published, whatever each gamer happens to think of it.

And, like I said before, White Wolf must have perceived, or otherwise come to believe, that the book was or would be profitable - they took it on and republished it, not so very long ago. Wonder how it did (or is doing, perhaps). . .

 

[Kichwas]

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[Nymrohd]

The thing is, D&D includes creatures whose actions, even by official fluff, certainly involves mature themes. Demons, devils, evil cultists and aberrations are all a big and important part of D&D in each of its incarnations, including the 4E. You can avoid explicit descriptions but at least for some villains, that would mean you are not doing them any favors. Sooner or later some monster will have a flenshing power or something similar. Someone will abduct the villagers or face drow slavers. And yes inevitably the adventurers will want to spend some hard earned gold in the local brothel. Adventures and setting books should not shy from including such events.
However considering the entirely non-simulationist approach of 4E, we do not need subsystems to cover every perverted thing one might imagine doing.

 

[Burrito Al Pastor]

The BoED and BoVD didn't flop because they had mature content. They flopped because they were poorly-written and poorly-balanced.

 

[Leontodon]

On a more serious note, I want D&D books that are well written and, when appropriate to their content, cover mature material as needed. I don't mind if a book includes sex, heavy violence, gore, and other such topics. Incorporating such things, yes, please.

Do I want a book about such topics. No.

So what I think.

For instance: A Campaign Setting that includes a decadent empire? Can't be totally fluffy!

A book only about decadent empire's and what happens in them? Senseless!

 

[roguerouge]

Honestly, I don't think you should reduce this to mechanics or rolls. And players who want to explore their character's sex lives, should think of the other people around the table first.

You're assuming that a) I'm reducing this to mechanics and rolls, rather than taking what I need to supplement role playing and b) that the players I have had are inconsiderate jerks. Fortunately, neither are true.

I would appreciate it, in the future, if you were to ask me about how I handle things at my table first. See my sig.

Did I use everything from the supplement? Of course not. No DM does. The measure of a supplement is whether it has stuff you want to borrow for your campaign. And if I judged a supplement by its illustrations, I'd never buy most third party products or anything with Ron Spencer's work in it.

As far as what the BoEF has done for my table... well, rules for the efficacy of various contraceptives have proven to be quite useful. (Sometimes you want the plausible deniability of a random roll as a DM. And when the "careful" PC rolled a 99 on d100 for an equipment failure and then under a 20 on d100, the latter was one of the more dramatic rolls in the campaign.) I've played out what happens when a pregnant PC gets hit with an Evil Eye as an assassination attempt from Paizo's Lamashtu, a demon goddess of monstrous births.

Edit: (Remember how the BBEGal of Rise of the Runelords 1 becomes a villain? There's completely a place for this kind of content in mainstream games.)

 

[Fenes]

A game where mature themes would not come up would be too boring for me. I don't want to play Disney&Dragons. I don't need or want graphic details of either violence or sex, but playing an asexual character whose enemies went poof upon dieing, no one caring about them, and never ever did anything that was more evil than stealing gold from the rich is not for me.

I also consider the blood and gore more deserving of a mature rating than sex, but that's probably a cultural thing.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Having a book, even a tangential, supplemental book waaay out on the periphery that's full of nothing but gorn and kinky sex (sup, BoVD?) is pretty much bad for the hobby's image as a whole, no matter who says they would buy it.

The BoVD hurt DnD's newly rebuilt street cred a lot because some people who play other games now see D&D but read 'Nipple Clamp of Exquisite Pain'. Seriously, the person that thought that rated inclusion in the highly publicized and experimental 'Mature' book doesn't have a marketing bone in his body. And that's one of the less stupid things WotC, in producing the book, declared was what they thought was appropriate for a 'mature' game.

It's like bringing a copy of SAW and a porno to a fancy dinner party.

 

[ProfessorPain]

You're assuming that a) I'm reducing this to mechanics and rolls, rather than taking what I need to supplement role playing and b) that the players I have had are inconsiderate jerks. Fortunately, neither are true.

I would appreciate it, in the future, if you were to ask me about how I handle things at my table first. See my sig.

Did I use everything from the supplement? Of course not. No DM does. The measure of a supplement is whether it has stuff you want to borrow for your campaign. And if I judged a supplement by its illustrations, I'd never buy most third party products or anything with Ron Spencer's work in it.

As far as what the BoEF has done for my table... well, rules for the efficacy of various contraceptives have proven to be quite useful. (Sometimes you want the plausible deniability of a random roll as a DM. And when the "careful" PC rolled a 99 on d100 for an equipment failure and then under a 20 on d100, the latter was one of the more dramatic rolls in the campaign.) I've played out what happens when a pregnant PC gets hit with an Evil Eye as an assassination attempt from Paizo's Lamashtu, a demon goddess of monstrous births.

Edit: (Remember how the BBEGal of Rise of the Runelords 1 becomes a villain? There's completely a place for this kind of content in mainstream games.)

1) By your own example, you are reducing sex to rolls. You have players make rolls for things like contraception/pregnancy.

2) I don't think your group is made up of jerks at all. I was speaking very generally about Mature Gaming, and problems it can raise, and not speaking about your group. But I do think people who introduce such elements into their group need to be very careful.

Personally, by the example you have sighted, I would be uncomfrotable playing at the table with your group. For a few reasons. I do not want to listen to other people at the table describe sexual encounters with NPCs. I will admit there are times when it is appropriate, even required by the story to address it in some way. But this is very rare. And too often (and again i am not assuming your group does this), it hits either the extreme of being a source of humor or arousal for people. Both are problematic. If people are giggling over pregnancy rolls or midnight trysts, well, that isn't a mature way to handle mature content. On the other end, I have had DMs and Players who dwell on the sensual. This really makes me uncomfortable. I cannot say this enough. It is not the kind of role playing I want to engage in. Others might and that is fine. But too often people at the table, assume silence means I don't object. The default assumption by DMS should be no one at the table is comfortable with mature content, unless they ask them privately.

 

[Asmor]

It's like bringing a copy of SAW and a porno to a fancy dinner party.

Or, as I like to call it, Tuesday