Maximize Spell + Flame Blade = Full damage every hit?

[Shin Okada]

Maximized Flame Blade uses up a 6th-level spell slot (or Sudden Maximize feat), need a standard action to cast, lasts only 1 minutes/level (means one combat), and wielded by someone with only descent BAB (3/4 of HD). Seems not that much powerful for me. A 11th-level caster can do much nastier things with a 6th-level spell. And 11th-level fighter type may actually inflict simular or even bigger damages/per round without spending resources.

And at that level, energy resistances/immunities are quite popular. Especially those against fire are.

 

[Sejs]

I'm more of a Shillelagh/Spikes fan myself, but maybe that's just me.

 

[Caliban]

I'm going to go with "No."

This spell works similarly to the Summon Monster line of spells. The effect of the spell is that it creates a blade. Therefore, there are no "variable, numeric effects" to maximize.

Ray and Orb spells can't be Maximized or Empowered?

 

[fuindordm]

Note that Maximize Spell is a pretty raw deal for most spells. Depending on the die size, empower is almost as good.

An empowered d4 averages 2.5+1.25 = 3.75, compared to a maximized 4.
An empowered d6 averages 3.5+ 1.75 = 5.25, compared to a maximized 6.
An empowered d8 averages 4.5 + 2.25 = 6.75, cimpared to a maximized 8.

So when choosing between the two feats, ask yourself whether the extra spell level is really worth the extra
damage. For a spell like Horrid Wilting that starts at 15d8, choosing Maximize over Empower gets you an
extra 18 damage. For a spell like Magic Missile it buys you very little.

For a spell like Flame Blade, it gets you only about 1 more point of damage per round.

Ben

 

[FireLance]

Empower is actually better than Maximize for spells that have a small variable component and a large non-variable component because it also increases the non-variable component by half. For example, mass cure light wounds heals 1d8+15 hp for a 15th-level spellcaster. A maximized mass cure light wounds heals 23 hp, but an empowered mass cure light wounds heals (1d8+15) x 1.5 hp, average 28 hp.

Some people get around this problem by house-ruling that Maximize doubles the non-variable component of a spell.

 

[fuindordm]

Empower is actually better than Maximize for spells that have a small variable component and a large non-variable component because it also increases the non-variable component by half. For example, mass cure light wounds heals 1d8+15 hp for a 15th-level spellcaster. A maximized mass cure light wounds heals 23 hp, but an empowered mass cure light wounds heals (1d8+15) x 1.5 hp, average 28 hp.

Some people get around this problem by house-ruling that Maximize doubles the non-variable component of a spell.

I think maximize is simply not worth it and/or badly designed. +50% effect always has roughly the same utility, while the utility of maximize is highly variable.

Ben

 

[Dr_Rictus]

I think maximize is simply not worth it and/or badly designed. +50% effect always has roughly the same utility, while the utility of maximize is highly variable.

Depends how you value output vs. reliability. Maximize always has the same, very extreme, effect on a spell's reliability.

 

[andargor]

From current experience, I agree that Empower is better head-to-head with Maximize. At high levels, however, you usually have both, and hence the best of both.

And at Epic levels, having Automatic Quicken Spell a few times (optionally with Multispell) and Improved Metamagic, casting Empowered Maximized spells as a free action just rocks.

Andargor

 

[Errant]

I was thinking more of Sudden Maximise than the older Maximise (I'm not convinced +3 levels is worth it either), and I think the touch attack aspect balances the 3/4 attack bonus progression.

Will it be a favorite tactic? Probably not. But its an interesting alternative.

Although, factor in Energy Substitution, Weapon Focus Scimitar, Improved Critical Scimitar, and maybe some two weapon fighting options down the line and it could become a signature tactic.