Maybe this is where the magic went...(Forked Thread: Where Has All the Magic Gone?)

[AllisterH]

Oddly I think it's just the opposite. It used to be that PCs would take a portable hole, a decanter of endless water and a pipes of the sewers and MacGyver their way past 30 pages of combat encounters to get the McGuffin of endless cheeseake and go home to party.

Since the game is now more about combat and less about problem solving they want to reduce the possibility of anyone out-thinking the dungeon and thus avoiding all those thrilling 10X10 rooms with an orc and a pie.

I don't know if I've ever had a PC that wouldn't take a decanter of endless water over any sword you could name. Those things are just so freaking usefull.

You know, I personally disagree with the unstated assumption that in 1e/2e you were supposed to Mcguyver your way past encounters

 

[Gentlegamer]

You know, I personally disagree with the unstated assumption that in 1e/2e you were supposed to Mcguyver your way past encounters

I don't know about supposed to, but I know that player creativity trumps combat grinding in effectiveness to reach objectives. That is true no matter what RPG you're playing.

 

[Sir Brennen]

You know, I personally disagree with the unstated assumption that in 1e/2e you were supposed to Mcguyver your way past encounters

Mabye not "suppose to", but I'll agree that it often happened. When it did, a lot of DM energy then went into thwarting the PC's magic item/spell tactics when they were proving to become SOP and overly effective. Suddenly every important location became painted in gorgon's blood, lined with a thin layer of lead, and guarded by creatures that could see invisible and/or into the ethereal. It became an arms race just to make things challenging to magic-heavy PCs.

 

[RFisher]

If that fits the goals of the campaign, it is a perfectly viable explanation why selling magic items is hard / impossible. However, there are campaigns where i want my players to sell the times

Of course. A shop in town run by a unicorn that happily buys and sells all sorts of magic items works for me as well. I don’t think one way is better than the other.

 

[fanboy2000]

I blame fantasy literature. Why don´t the protagonists of novels use more, say, bags of tricks to throw rabbits down trousers to further the story? Instead they just use magic weapons and stuff all the time.
Now, thinking about it, i blame Elric.

You know, I think you're on to something. (Or maybe your just on something.) What is up with all those fantasy stories about combat? Don't those author's know that there is more to fantasy magic than just swords a stuff?

 

[Rechan]

You know, I think you're on to something. (Or maybe your just on something.) What is up with all those fantasy stories about combat? Don't those author's know that there is more to fantasy magic than just swords a stuff?

Such as running a bakery!

 

[billd91]

Of course. A shop in town run by a unicorn that happily buys and sells all sorts of magic items works for me as well. I don’t think one way is better than the other.

I would have a problem with it. How is that unicorn supposed to handle the money, much less balance his ledgers, without opposable thumbs?

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I would have a problem with it. How is that unicorn supposed to handle the money, much less balance his ledgers, without opposable thumbs?

That's what the horn is for.

To poke his gnome servants to doing them for him.

Brad

 

[billd91]

Not necessarily. It could be...

The wealthiest don’t have a lot of cash. Their wealth is mostly land. And they generally find their land much more valuable than any magic item.

My standard assumption is that it is far from sure that there is someone out there to buy a magic item. That’s the exception rather than the rule. And even if there is a buyer out there, you’d still have to find them.

Yes, a lot of wealth was tied up in land. But a lot of riches didn't exist for people except on paper as well. Merchants would tote around ledger books with their account balances and get a lot of trade conducted without hard currency in their pockets at all. Some of that could occur with D&D parties as well. They sell the sword, credits in ledgers would be switched from one person to the other, and the actual cash would still sit wherever it has been sitting for years as its value has been transferred from ledger to ledger.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

What about in a campaign where there are no magic shops? I myself hate the idea of just being able to go in and buy a magic sword or shield right off the shelf, pre-made to order; capitalism is all well and good in the real world, but this is a fantasy setting.

Even before the dawn of true capitalism, anything that could be bought and sold would be bought and sold.

Its not that Ye Olde Magic Shoppe is a magic item factory, its just a clearing house.

For example, the farmer who is tilling a field that once was the site of an epic battle might find the odd bit of magic here and there...and rather than use it himself, he'd sell it to improve his lot in life with better seed or a new plow. Or a younger, stronger plow horse. Or some fine fabric for a dress for his wife. Or to give his daugter a dowry, or pay his son's apprenticeship fees.

Why do that when he could use the stuff and potentially find even better stuff by adventuring?

1) He may not be allowed to keep arms and armor by law.

2) He may be too old to be a warrior.

3) He may be a pacifist or merely afraid of going into battle. Adventuring is dangerous, after all.

4) This is his family farm, and has been for 400 years. Why mess with tradition?

5) If he is an indentured servant, tied to the land by debt, selling that bit of magic could be his path to becoming a freeman.

Etc.

Like the PC who sells his Ring of Fire resistance to get a better weapon, the Farmer is selling the weapon in order to improve his life.

I would have a problem with it. How is that unicorn supposed to handle the money, much less balance his ledgers, without opposable thumbs?

I've seen a puff piece on the news detailing that at least one gas station that has a trained dog that handles the money, taking it from customer to cashier, and back. It doesn't do the counting, though.

And a unicorn at least has the advantage of being equipped with a natural quill or stylus.

They sell the sword, credits in ledgers would be switched from one person to the other, and the actual cash would still sit wherever it has been sitting for years as its value has been transferred from ledger to ledger.

Even in the age of modern, high-tech capitalisim, there are small, isolated towns where promissory notes, checks and similar money substitutes have been circulating for decades. Even though they're technically of zero monetary value- if presented to a bank, they wouldn't be honored- they still operate like cash within that microeconomy.