D&D 5E Mearls' "Firing" tweet

[robus]

I think there was the major topic of discussion on the surface level, and then there were several sub-topics that rose up from discussions of the main one. I can't really say my personal position has changed on anything, but I think there were some great observations made.

Certainly the level of discourse here is better than most, and for that I’m much appreciative.

 

[Obryn]

That said, the tenor of the questioning (even from people who wouldn't describe themselves as misogynist) reveal an implicit, if unconscious, bias in their line of questioning, as someone else (I forget who) made the point earlier in the thread that you weren't really seeing people air these same types of suspicions regarding male hires with seemingly less relevant experience. It's worth spelling out that that unconscious bias exists, that all men struggle with it at at some time or another, and to call it out for what it is. That's not to villainize people, but to make them question the presence of their own inherent biases and hopefully grow a little from the experience.

Yup. Nobody's perfect. If I'm letting any sexist or racist biases influence me - and I am a 43 year old guy and have lived my whole life in the USA, so I am positive they do, in ways that I am not conscious of - I expect to be called out for it. That's an opportunity to be better, not a conversation-killer.

e: I mean, I think about the best possible answer to "Are you a racist?" is a genuine "I'm trying really hard not to be."

 

[ArchfiendBobbie]

I've heard that claim made too and I don't think it's right. Trolls were/are definitely a thing in message boards. I'm not sure where this trawling term came from but it think it's more related to click-bait ads/blog posts.

Edit: Just to be clear I know what trawling is - I grew up in fishing towns - but it's use as an internet term is less clear. It's definitely more recent than trolling.

The trawling origin predates the internet. It goes back into Darpanet. The reason it seems more recent is that it has been more recently in internet history people have brought up the origin. For a lobg time, no obe cared where it came from.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

The trawling origin predates the internet. It goes back into Darpanet. The reason it seems more recent is that it has been more recently in internet history people have brought up the origin. For a lobg time, no obe cared where it came from.

Its not quite the same as trawling. Trawling is dragging a net to scoop up fish. Trolling is to use a baited line instead. You bait the line, drag it around for a bit, and then pull it up to check what has taken the bait.

- Hence the parallels with internet trolls: Make inflammatory posts and then checking back later to see if anyone has bitten.

 

[ArchfiendBobbie]

Here's a question to hopefully begin the wrap up of this thread....


Has anyone, who's followed along with the discussion, been moved to change their opinion on the matter (no matter how much, no matter which way)?

Yes, I have. But not toward the positive. I'm left questioning if the effort of even speaking on this topic is worth the bother, and wondering about my own temper control.

I'm also left with the impression that many who have spoken in her defense really want Kate Welch to end up victimized by these trolls so they have someone to self-righteously protect and a living icon of their agenda.

In short, I think everyone who posted on this thread has some soul searching to do. Myself included.

 

[Gradine]

I'm also left with the impression that many who have spoken in her defense really want Kate Welch to end up victimized by these trolls so they have someone to self-righteously protect and a living icon of their agenda.

This is a horrendous mis-characterization of basically everyone who has engaged in this thread, either with you directly or not. It's actually pretty interesting; everything you just said is completely wrong:

a) Nobody here wants Kate Welch to be victimized, because:
b) The people who are targeting her aren't trolls (a point in my previous post you ignored to instead give a history lesson), they're actually
c) a community of misogynists who don't crave attention so much as legitimacy, which they get by having their views be unquestioned (and why they thus use fear, such as through doxxing, as a tactic to cow others into submission)
d) and to make matter worse, you drag out the old crow of "virtue signalling" which is absolute rubbish; something that only people who can't imagine sticking up for anybody else for any reason other than out of personal gain accuse people who stick up for others because it's what's right of doing.

 

[robus]

Its not quite the same as trawling. Trawling is dragging a net to scoop up fish. Trolling is to use a baited line instead. You bait the line, drag it around for a bit, and then pull it up to check what has taken the bait.

- Hence the parallels with internet trolls: Make inflammatory posts and then checking back later to see if anyone has bitten.

Well blow me down with a feather:

1. a : to fish for by trolling
b : to fish by trolling in troll lakes
c : to pull through the water in trolling troll a lure
d : to search in or at trolls flea markets for bargains; also : prowl troll nightclubs

from here: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/troll

 

[Cyrinishad]

This is a horrendous mis-characterization of basically everyone who has engaged in this thread, either with you directly or not. It's actually pretty interesting; everything you just said is completely wrong:

a) Nobody here wants Kate Welch to be victimized, because:
b) The people who are targeting her aren't trolls (a point in my previous post you ignored to instead give a history lesson), they're actually
c) a community of misogynists who don't crave attention so much as legitimacy, which they get by having their views be unquestioned (and why they thus use fear, such as through doxxing, as a tactic to cow others into submission)
d) and to make matter worse, you drag out the old crow of "virtue signalling" which is absolute rubbish; something that only people who can't imagine sticking up for anybody else for any reason other than out of personal gain accuse people who stick up for others because it's what's right of doing.

Can you really blame an "Archfiend" for having an inability to comprehend sticking up anybody else out of anything other than personal gain?... LoL.

...but, to be fair, Should anyone really believe anything said by an Artifact created by Cyric?... LoL.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Here's a question to hopefully begin the wrap up of this thread....


Has anyone, who's followed along with the discussion, been moved to change their opinion on the matter (no matter how much, no matter which way)?

I'm still thinking he should have worded the tweet better. I can see how a fan of dense lore and rules may have thought "did he just fire me or imply that I'm a sexist?" But people got way too offended by it. Then again its the internet.

 

[redrick]

I'm also left with the impression that many who have spoken in her defense really want Kate Welch to end up victimized by these trolls so they have someone to self-righteously protect and a living icon of their agenda.

Oh wow no, not at all what I am seeing in any way. Not in the slightest. I haven't seen any indication of that from anything I've read here.

I won't speak to the motivations of others. For myself, I wish, unequivocally, absolutely nothing but the best to Kate Welch and the rest of the Wizards team. I was happy to see that she was hired. I was distressed to see a lot of wild speculations about her qualifications and the role her gender played in her being hired, as I've gone into at length about here and elsewhere. I don't really see my actions as "defending her." She's a grown human and it seems like the people on her team have her back on this issue unequivocally.

I spoke out not to offer aid to Kate Welch, which she certainly doesn't need from me, but because this is my community and, as a member of that community, I have a responsibility to working to make it the best community it can be. Hostile, sexist behavior affects everybody in this community and it's something I want to take a stand against for that reason. I say that about the narrower community of Dungeons & Dragons and the broader community of humans.