D&D 5E (2024) Mearls has some Interesting Ideals about how to fix high level wizards.

[Yaarel]

I am not sure if that is exactly where I would have the cut-off point, but I am fine with there being two books, makes it easier to ignore the higher one

Many (most?) games appear to end by level 8, so zero thru 8 is the general experience, with 5 thru 8 considered a sweet spot.

Then, to divide the tiers by four levels each allows the "mid tier" levels 9 thru 12 to distinguish defacto and dejure from lower tier 5 thru 8 and higher tier 13 thru 16. Mid tier is useful for designing an adventure for similar levels. Mid tier is the old school "name levels".

Conveniently, the proficiency bonus defines each tier and the feat level is a capstone feature for each tier.

The "level zero" tier is playable, add hit points and simple weapons, and the species features, plus skills and feat grant meaningful options for level zero characters. This tier is great for highschool characters, kids-on-bike genre, and for players who want something simple or gritty fragile. Levels 1 thru 4 are substantial and survivive characters.

For the highest tiers 9-12, 13-16, and 17-20, these tiers distinguish meaningfully between different kinds of superhero genres.

 

[Yaarel]

I love cantrips, their concept, and they work well at low levels. But the following criticism by @mearls suggests cantrips need improvement at the highest levels:

"Let's dump cantrips. At this level, they clutter the character sheet and rarely offer a good option. That's five spells you don't need to think about."

To scale better, cantrips might need to scale better by improving at levels 1, 5, 9, 13, and 17. An improvement per four-level tier.

Cantrips can be part of the solution for simplifying high-tier casters. Like the Warlock relying on the Eldritch Blast cantrip, if cantrips can remain meaningful options at the highest levels, there can be less need for more complex spellcasting apparatus.

Cantrips are like superpowers. Features like Mage Armor and speed improvement etcetera can also reorganize as superpower always-on at-will cantrips that work well at the highest tier.

 

[mamba]

Many (most?) games appear to end by level 8, so zero thru 8 is the general experience, with 5 thru 8 considered a sweet spot.

Then, to divide the tiers by four levels each allows the "mid tier" levels 9 thru 12 to distinguish defacto and dejure from lower tier 5 thru 8 and higher tier 13 thru 16. Mid tier is useful for designing an adventure for similar levels. Mid tier is the old school "name levels".

I'd probably put 9-12 in the base version however, given that many published adventures include them

 

[Yaarel]

I'd probably put 9-12 in the base version however, given that many published adventures include them

Totally, you can put the mid tier 9-12 in the low-tiers players handbook.

My thinking is, currently many games dont even reach mid tier. Of those who do, if mid tier is in the high-tiers players handbook, players would be tempted to purchase the second book to continue on. Bastions can start to become a big deal. With slot 5 spells coming online and so on, mid tier is superheroish, like Batman, Submariner, Beowulf, and so on.

Also, if the low-tiers players handbook only has zero, 1-4, and 5-8, this keeps the intro into D&D substantially simple. It is like a Basic Tier and an Expert tier.

 

[Yaarel]

Mike Mearls Games has solid advice:

"A good rule of thumb in game design is that you can give players up to seven options to choose from. After that, they struggle unless you find ways to break those options up into categories. For instance, a player with five attacks and four defenses is probably OK."


When thinking about the number of prepared spells, it might help to divide spells according to their purpose during combat.

Spell Purpose:
. Damage/Healing
. Accuracy (Bless, dis saves)/Defenses (AC, saves)
. Mobility (Open Lock, Fly, Teleport)/Control (Wall, Slow)
. Stealth/Detection
. Grant Attack (Haste, Time Stop)/Deny Attack (Stun)
. Summoning (autonomous ally)

Something like, have upto four (sometimes seven) prepared spells in each category. Each category is manageable enough.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Basic line lasted 17 years just saying. Technically 19.

And the Advanced line was the only one of the two that actually survived.

We can play this game infinitely. It will not produce anything fruitful.

 

[Zardnaar]

And the Advanced line was the only one of the two that actually survived.

We can play this game infinitely. It will not produce anything fruitful.

Advanced libe also died.

Bog problem since imho they keep rebuilding the game from the ground up 3.0 onwards. Just creates new problems.

Evergreen was marketing buzz. People responsible are gone.