Mearls On D&D's Design Premises/Goals

First of all, thanks [MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION] for collecting this. I generally avoid Twitter because, frankly, it's full of a$$holes.

That aside: this is an interesting way of looking at it, and underscores the difference in design philosophies between the WotC team and the Paizo team. There is a lot of room for both philosophies of design, and I don't think there is any reason for fans of one to be hostile to fans of the other, but those differences do matter. There are ways in which I like the prescriptive elements of 3.x era games (I like set skill difficulty lists, for example) but I tend to run by the seat of my pants and the effects of my beer, so a fast and loose and forgiving version like 5E really enables me running a game the way I like to.

 

[SkidAce]

That moment doesn't exist by RAW. You don't get to attack until after initiative. It's okay for you to do it that way in your games of course, but I'm discussing the rules as they are written. Not the rules as they are changed. By RAW, there is never a point in which a character can be attacking until after initiative is rolled.

Just for MY clarity on your point...

If the unseen/undetected archer shot an arrow out of the darkness at the PCs, you would roll initiative, go through the order (assuming surprise) and then describe the arrow flying into the group when it got to the archers turn?

Or you would start with the "narrative" of the arrow, then roll init as above?

 

[Numidius]

As per Zeno's paradox, that arrow should never hit the pc...
Nor Achilles win those contests against the tortoise

 

[Satyrn]

As per Zeno's paradox, that arrow should never hit the pc...
Nor Achilles win those contests against the tortoise

I suppose Achilles is worried that the tortoise will pull a Mike Tyson when he tries passing.


. . . The tortoise being so short he's bound to get nowhere close to the ear and rather sink his jaw into Achilles' heel

 

[Maxperson]

Just for MY clarity on your point...

If the unseen/undetected archer shot an arrow out of the darkness at the PCs, you would roll initiative, go through the order (assuming surprise) and then describe the arrow flying into the group when it got to the archers turn?

Or you would start with the "narrative" of the arrow, then roll init as above?

In prior editions I'd just have the arrow fly out of nowhere. In 5e, though, it would be wrong to do that in my opinion. Especially since surprise and positioning have already been determined or the archer wouldn't be able to get ready to fire. Initiative would be rolled before the arrow was released, though. Perhaps the creak of the bow or some animal being spooked potentially alerted the PCs. The reason I'd do this is that if any of the PCs win initiative, he will potentially have a reaction that can be used against the attacker that is now revealed by the shot.

 

[Lanefan]

In prior editions I'd just have the arrow fly out of nowhere. In 5e, though, it would be wrong to do that in my opinion. Especially since surprise and positioning have already been determined or the archer wouldn't be able to get ready to fire.

The example specified unseen and undetected, though, so the party in theory is off guard when the shot is taken.

Initiative would be rolled before the arrow was released, though. Perhaps the creak of the bow or some animal being spooked potentially alerted the PCs.

This is exactly why there needs to be a separate surprise mechanic in the game, to deal with just this sort of thing outside of initiative. Passive perception kinda waves at this, I suppose, though from what I've seen elsewhere in here it has problems too.

The reason I'd do this is that if any of the PCs win initiative, he will potentially have a reaction that can be used against the attacker that is now revealed by the shot.

If they're not surprised, sure. But without a surprise system a lot of realism is needlessly getting sacrificed to game mechanics in this example. Bleah.

 

[Maxperson]

The example specified unseen and undetected, though, so the party in theory is off guard when the shot is taken.

The party is in theory off guard during every surprise. That's what makes it a surprise.

This is exactly why there needs to be a separate surprise mechanic in the game, to deal with just this sort of thing outside of initiative. Passive perception kinda waves at this, I suppose, though from what I've seen elsewhere in here it has problems too.

Yeah. I'm not sure how much I like this. I'm just now preparing to run 5e for the first time and so I'm sticking to the books to learn the system as it is before I start tinkering with it. I like to know what I'm doing before I start tossing in the wrenches.

If they're not surprised, sure. But without a surprise system a lot of realism is needlessly getting sacrificed to game mechanics in this example. Bleah.

I agree, but see above.

 

[Hussar]

The party is in theory off guard during every surprise. That's what makes it a surprise.



Yeah. I'm not sure how much I like this. I'm just now preparing to run 5e for the first time and so I'm sticking to the books to learn the system as it is before I start tinkering with it. I like to know what I'm doing before I start tossing in the wrenches.



I agree, but see above.

Seriously?!?!? With all the back and forth about how the system works, you've never actually run it? Good grief. X(

 

[S'mon]

Seriously?!?!? With all the back and forth about how the system works, you've never actually run it? Good grief. X(

This is the usual danger with arguing on the Internet.

 

[Maxperson]

Seriously?!?!? With all the back and forth about how the system works, you've never actually run it? Good grief. X(

I've played it, and I can read and understand the rules(like say, initiative ), but running the game gives a greater understanding.

 

[epithet]

There is nothing magical about initiative; it doesn't activate the combat mini-game, or empower character abilities. It's very simple, really. When you need to know who goes first, use initiative. If everything happens at more-or-less the same time, you don't need it.

You seem to be getting hung up on pedantic nonsense instead of just understanding how the game works.