To be fair to them, neither Marlon Wayans nor Jeremy Irons were the worst parts of that movie.
I would vehemently argue Marlon was. It's hard to imagine a worse performance in a theatrical movie.
Mearls talks about his inspiration for the 4e classes
- Thread starter Keefe the Thief
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I would vehemently argue Marlon was. It's hard to imagine a worse performance in a theatrical movie.
Mouseferatu
Hero
Hmm. I'd argue--not to derail the thread any more
--that his actually wasn't the worst performance in that movie.Thora Birch and Jeremy Irons, both of whom are capable of so much better, were actually worse than Marlon in that particular film.
In fact, between her under-acting and his horrendous over-acting, they probably averaged out to one adequate performance.
Scribble
First Post
In fact, between her under-acting and his horrendous over-acting, they probably averaged out to one adequate performance.
I know we all think of our campaigns and games as thrilling A+ stuff, but in reality the average DM and Players aren't high talent authors/actors.
I'd say the majority of players out there have on numerous occasions faced evil wizards that are pretty much just like the performance by Irons... Overacted caricatures complete with insane overcomplicated plots.
The movie was bad, I wont argue that, but I kind of feel like it represents the average D&D campaign out there.
The average campaign is overused cliche plots and poorly acted caricature villains, opposed by equally poorly acted random hodgepodge heroes that stick together and do things... just because.
And that's part of the fun. It's goofy pulp style fun. It doesn't matter at the table that the trap is riddled with ways fpor the PCs to defeat it- because well... the sharks have frikkin laser beams!
I used to read all the D&D books- they were great (at the time I don't know if I'd still think so...) But they were never "really" like the average D&D campaign.
If you set out to make a "cool" movie you're going to have to make one that doesn't match the experience at the table really, like the books. It's a cool story, but is it REALLY D&D?
Which I think is the REAL problem.
I think there's a reason why things like KoTDT and OoTS and the PvP podcasts are so popular. They capture the feel of the game as it's played but they don't shy away from spoofing it. They embrace the silliness- we empathize with the story because it's just like our own experiences (slightly exaggerated.)
If you try to capture the experience but treat it too seriosuly at the same time, you just end up with a B movie (at best.)
I often wonder if Irons and the writer took inspiration from actual game play but the director thought he could still try for the "cool" side.
rogueattorney
Adventurer
I'm sorry, this was posted a while ago, but...
Jack Vance is obscure?
50+ published works, 2 Nebula awards, a Hugo award, an Edgar award, one of only 26 authors inducted as a Grand Master by the Sci-Fi/Fantasy Writers Association, and he's obscure?
Wow! If Jack Vance is obscure, who besides Steven King isn't obscure?
Fifth Element
Legend
I can see it. If I had never played D&D, I would never have heard of him. If you're really info sci-fi/fantasy, you might be familiar with all the award winners, but for me the list of winners of the Nebula, Hugo and Edgar awards is pretty hit-and-miss.
Vance is pretty big among fans of sci-fi/fantasy, but that does not preclude him from being generally obscure. Unless the original post was referring only to the sci-fi/fantasy genres and I missed it, in which case I would disagree.
Doug McCrae
Legend
Yeah, he's obscure, and getting obscurer by the day. Less well known than Tolkien, Rowling, Pratchett, RA Salvatore, Moorcock, CS Lewis, Ursula K LeGuin, Frank L Baum, REH, ERB, George RR Martin, Edgar Alan Poe and Thomas Malory, to name but thirteen.
JoeGKushner
Adventurer
Jack Vance is an older author.
As such, he tends not to fall into the 'flashy' of newer authors, even those whose works might not be considered 'good'.
In addition, the works most closely associated with D&D, don't have '50+ published' works to them. It's a handful of novels.
Given a poll to D&D players who started playing with 4e and give them R A Salvatore and Jack Vance, I strongly suspect the former would quickly outpace the latter.
Mercutio01
First Post
If none of your works are currently in print? Yeah, that makes you obscure.
Vance didn't get the comic book and film treatments of Howard, nor did his fame extend from a different creation than the fantasy one (Tarzan being more famous than John Carter, for instance), and wasn't a huge popular figure like Heinlein whose books are still in print. Indeed, the first I heard of Vance was long after I started playing D&D in the early 90s, and it was in the context of discussing magical casting systems--ie Psionics vs. Vancian.
The same is true of Lieber.
JoeGKushner
Adventurer
Mercutio01
First Post
Check the years on most of those 1999 (re-issues after the other went out of print) and later or 1984 and earlier (initial print runs). Also consider that there was no such thing as Amazon, wikipedia, or, hell, the internet with which to find those books. There were bookstores and word of mouth.
So, sure, I'll eat the "out of print." However I'll replace it with "widely unavailable." Just for comparison of books available now, I just did a search at four local Barnes and Noble (based on my ZIP code of Revere, MA) for both Leiber and Vance. In stock at the stores are Lankhmar Book 1 and Book 2. Literally none of Vance's work, and nothing else by Leiber. I also checked the Boston Public Library for "The Dying Earth." The Boston Public Library has exactly 2 copies, neither of which can be checked out of the library.
You'll note the resurgence of pulp fiction authors in the late 90's and early 00's, authors most people coming of age in the 80s and early 90s hadn't heard of because the books weren't in current printing.
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