D&D 5E Melee Combat Benchmarking (Class Comparison) [UPDATED]

[SilverfireSage]

Did you count the Martial art ability for a monk to hit with an unarmed attack after making an attack as a bonus action?

 

[Zelc]

Did you count the Martial art ability for a monk to hit with an unarmed attack after making an attack as a bonus action?

Yup.

I messed up the fact that Ki recharges after a short rest. Huge changes incoming for the Monk.

 

[SilverfireSage]

Yup.

I messed up the fact that Ki recharges after a short rest. Huge changes incoming for the Monk.

Ah, I have a feeling that may help them a bit, but probably won't be able to bring them in line with the Fighter or anything, though I think we'll see it bring them closer and make them a bit more balanced in terms of in and out of combat abilities.

 

[Zelc]

Big updates to the Ranger and Monk! It turns out a Sword & Board Ranger deals almost the same damage as a TWF Ranger with a much larger boost to their durability. With that switch, it seems like Rangers are in line with Rogues after level 11. (ETA: I still think Rangers are clunky though.)

Also, with the adjustment to Ki, Monks can spam Stunning Strike. I only modeled it as a 25% reduction in damage, but it's got other benefits. As such, I think the Monk is actually in a good spot after level 5. They're very weak in the early levels, but unfortunately I can't think of a great way to fix this without making them stronger later. Maybe adding Wis to Ki? ETA: I also hate their dead levels!

Houserules for Rangers and Monks have been removed, and I added a houserule to remove the bonus action cost of TWF.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Ability Score Increase + Second Wind. The Fighter 15 has 182.5 HP whereas the Paladin 15 has 157 HP (Lay on Hands HP divided by 3 because it's a per long rest power).

If you don't mind me asking, what are the things which this analysis leaves out in your opinion?

Mainly that it leaves out anything except directly dealing and being dealt damage, and ignores any possibility of intelligent play. That directly favours the class which is the most straightforward to play (ie - the champion). Am I right in thinking that non-ac attacks are also ignored?

For example, the open hand monk has increased movement, can cancel the reactions of creatures he hits with flurry and negate one ranged attack against him each turn. That means if he has melee buddies, he can really minimize his incoming damage while fully contributing. The rogue can do something similar with his bonus disengage action.

The most reliable comparison from this is probably that between battlemaster and champion, and it's slightly concerning that the battlemaster comes out ahead in the most straightforward scenario. That said - I'd be interested to know how the comparison comes off if we can throw some advantage into the mix (say from our monk buddy proning or stunning our target).

I also agree that the monk doesn't have enough ki at very low levels. Personally I would look at trading in his free bonus action attack for a base of 3-4 points of ki (or an appropriate amount to make up the damage over the typical adventuring day), allowing him to start really being a monk when he starts play.

 

[Zelc]

Mainly that it leaves out anything except directly dealing and being dealt damage, and ignores any possibility of intelligent play. That directly favours the class which is the most straightforward to play (ie - the champion). Am I right in thinking that non-ac attacks are also ignored?

I called out the utility abilities which did not factor into my analysis and considered them in my commentary. For example, I think the Rogue is fine despite the gap in combat effectiveness because of their utility. I get worried when a class without a lot of utility falls far short of the Fighter, or when a class with utility falls far short of the Rogue. And AFAIK, these classes can't pull off many non-AC attacks (I guess the Ranger can use Conjure Barrage, which seems pretty bad in general).

For example, the open hand monk has increased movement, can cancel the reactions of creatures he hits with flurry and negate one ranged attack against him each turn. That means if he has melee buddies, he can really minimize his incoming damage while fully contributing. The rogue can do something similar with his bonus disengage action.

I understand your point, and I think I mention abilities which are more effective than modeled. In any case, I don't think this is the best example. Yes, the Monk can minimize damage coming at him, but that damage will go to someone else. It doesn't directly prevent damage to the party, it only redirects it (although maybe to someone better able to dodge/take it). Worse, Step of the Wind uses up a bonus action (-1 attack) and a Ki point (-1 Stunning Strike). I don't think it's a great option in most cases. Finally, I did account for Deflect Missiles in the model, although I think it's highly situational.

 

[Celtavian]

Yeah, wizards are there to fry/weaken large groups so the fighter can mop up, or control enemy groups so they don't overwhelm the party.

A more relevant comparison would be warlocks, since they get the most damaging cantrip + Hex, and enough toughness to go to the front lines.

I agree. Warlock should be included in DPR calculations. They're the caster equivalent of a martial in purpose.

 

[Saeviomagy]

And AFAIK, these classes can't pull off many non-AC attacks (I guess the Ranger can use Conjure Barrage, which seems pretty bad in general).

I was referring to incoming damage, rather than out going. I would expect the monk to get a defensive boost when he gains proficiency in all saves, and I couldn't tell if he'd got one.

Yes, the Monk can minimize damage coming at him, but that damage will go to someone else. It doesn't directly prevent damage to the party, it only redirects it (although maybe to someone better able to dodge/take it). Worse, Step of the Wind uses up a bonus action (-1 attack) and a Ki point (-1 Stunning Strike).

Like I said, you don't use step of the wind, you flurry and rob your target of his reaction.

 

[Celtavian]

I like that WotC made the fighter the best damage dealer. He can't do much else but deal and take damage. He should be the best at it.

 

[Zelc]

Fixed the Barbarian's level 15 %EFF, it was too high for some reason (everything else was fine).

I was referring to incoming damage, rather than out going. I would expect the monk to get a defensive boost when he gains proficiency in all saves, and I couldn't tell if he'd got one.

I didn't know how to handle Diamond Soul or Slippery Mind so I just stuck it in the list of unmodeled abilities.

Like I said, you don't use step of the wind, you flurry and rob your target of his reaction.

Whoops you're right .

Warlock should be included in DPR calculations. They're the caster equivalent of a martial in purpose.

I don't want to get into ranged DPS here because DPR*RIS becomes a much worse measure of effectiveness.

I like that WotC made the fighter the best damage dealer. He can't do much else but deal and take damage. He should be the best at it.

Agreed! Although I actually think the Champion isn't good enough at damage dealing, especially compared to the Battlemaster.