D&D General Melf's Guide to Greyhawk Coming From Luke Gygax & WotC

[Azzy]

I do not understand what is making some folks grumpy about this news.

Some folks will complain no matter what.

 

[Remathilis]

Some folks will complain no matter what.

"Wizards printed a spell called water walk? What do they have against swimming?"

 

[Nobleshield]

What's also interesting to me is the comment that they would print more modules. We could do with a series of modules like the old style, not just Adventure Path books.

 

[darjr]

A demo adventure by Luke being tested in the wild? I’m not sure yet but it looks like it.

Kenneth Goad (@darksteel0509) on Threads

lukegygax closing out the @wotc_wizard demo at @gary.con . Great adventure and look.

www.threads.com

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

What's also interesting to me is the comment that they would print more modules. We could do with a series of modules like the old style, not just Adventure Path books.

The price point of short, softcover adventures is pretty high nowadays. If they do go with a physical module, it'll be interesting to see what the price is. This is honestly something that's a lot more practical to do via PDF or DriveThruRPG nowadays, although those have other issues.

 

[kronovan]

I liked it until I saw inexplicably making Yolande (I think it was Yolande) black, changing the Prince of Ulek to a Princess... the name changes I didn't care about since it was either obvious it'd be changed (Plains of the Paynims) or it's using the actual name, not the "common" name (Frost Barbarians etc. using their proper name). Changing the name of the Scarlet Brotherhood I think was a weird take that seemed to make no sense other than some numpty being upset at the word "Brotherhood" but the rest were like "Okay it's not a big deal". I wasn't even against adding the Goliath mayor of whatever city, because while I dislike them being a core race, it wasn't the most ridiculous thing.

What I dislike about the DMG's Greyhawk chapter is it's anti Baklunish, or to put it more gently - Baklunish ignorant. In particular, the included WoG map ignores settlements that were added by the Living Greyawk Gazetteer's map and Anna Beyer's map. The DMG's map takes that region back to the original 1980 map's settlements, which is a surpising choice considering a number of later adventures and content, even written as early as the 80s, added Baklunish settlments. I agree that changing the Plains of Paynims is for the better - recently learned that paynim is a derogatory term/name.

Baklunish deities are also missing. Admittedly there weren't many, but other than Istis the other 3 are absent. I consider that as important as missing settlements, because all of those deities (Geshtai, Xan Yae and Zuoken) were listed in the 83 Gold Box/World of Geyhawk book as commonly worshipped. So their worship figured into many other parts of the Flanaess. As well, they're all lesser goddesses or demi-gods, which in accordance with WoG lore are those that are more likely to interfere in the affairs of mortals. There's a recent 3rd party guide to the Baklunish Basin, so maybe WotC was trying to not tread there.

I'm not aware of any picture or reference in the 2024 DMG that depicts or describes Queen Yolande of Celene as black - is there? The only picture I've seen of her is in the LGG and it's black ink on white, so not possible to say. That said, she's definitely depicted as a demi-human Elf.

Renaming the Scarlet Brotherhood to Shar is weird. I get the source of the idea; LGG had a brief mention that visitors from the SB to Iron League cities intro'd themselves as emmisaries from the Kingdom of Shar. Also, the LGG map added a capitol for the SB which was named Hesuel Ilshar. I don't recall any mention of Shar in the WoG Book, or other early publication. Anyhow...seems a bit silly to me - SB were a brotherhod of monks, assassins and thiefs from a specific realm, who did a lot of espioage, pirtating and warring. So I don't get the reason to hide that by renaming their realm. But maybe WotC of 2024 was setting sail with the idea that they're a sisterhood and brotherhood?

I'm currently running a campaign with Advanced OSE, which is set in WoG's Baklunish Basin. So any content that can help me homebrew adventures is welcome. On the other hand I'm rarely playing, let alone running 5e these days. Were it certain that this new GH book was a system-agnositc treatment of the setting, I'd be interested. But if it's 5e oriented, I'll probably take a pass.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Yolande is on the PHB cover, and I think one more art piece elsewhere in the book.

In the DMG she is depicted in the Marks of Prestige section giving some medals.

As far as I know she was only ever officially depicted once in black and white, and is fairly just an elf.

Shar was mentioned as being the name of their territory before. It means purity.

 

[nyvinter]

The DMG's map takes that region back to the original 1980 map's settlements, which is a surpising choice considering a number of later adventures and content, even written as early as the 80s, added Baklunish settlments.

This is based on my interaction with Greyhawk fans — it's never been a setting I've been interested in as such and I'm sure this in turn colours what I've seen — but no matter what choice you make for what Greyhawk era to showcase, you will make people upset because it's not "their" Greyhawk. And the 1980 one is the most safe, and I wouldn't be surprised if according to their surveys that's the one that would alienate the least fans.

 

[Nobleshield]

The above is the art I'm thinking of, but I'm firmly in the camp that Elves should be pale/white-skinned (Drow excluded), in the style of Tolkien, who was influenced by Scandinavian folklore (see also Poul Anderson). But that's neither here nor there, and I will add that art is just terrible either way which is a huge issue no matter what (the heroes look like they are being held at gunpoint and told to smile or that Yoland is whispering "Remember to make a big smile or you won't get your reward" or something lol).

Paynim, I found just means "heathen," i.e., non-Christian, so with the current culture, it's no surprise it went. Similarly, they renamed the Caliphate because they presumably feared offending Muslims and I want to say some terrorist organization referred to themselves as the successor to some Caliphate from history. IIRC it was renamed to Emirate which sounds more accurate anyway

 

[Parmandur]

I'm not aware of any picture or reference in the 2024 DMG that depicts or describes Queen Yolande of Celene as black - is there? The only picture I've seen of her is in the LGG and it's black ink on white, so not possible to say. That said, she's definitely depicted as a demi-human Elf.

She is front and center on the current PHB cover, and shows up a few other places. Definitely black now, which is dandy as far as I am concerned.

Renaming the Scarlet Brotherhood to Shar is weird. I get the source of the idea; LGG had a brief mention that visitors from the SB to Iron League cities intro'd themselves as emmisaries from the Kingdom of Shar. Also, the LGG map added a capitol for the SB which was named Hesuel Ilshar. I don't recall any mention of Shar in the WoG Book, or other early publication. Anyhow...seems a bit silly to me - SB were a brotherhod of monks, assassins and thiefs from a specific realm, who did a lot of espioage, pirtating and warring. So I don't get the reason to hide that by renaming their realm. But maybe WotC of 2024 was setting sail with the idea that they're a sisterhood and brotherhood?

The name of the actual territory being called Shar us from the 2E Scarlet Brotherhood book.