Metamagic rods and crafting items

[Someone]

One of my characters have now a lesser rod of empower, and seeing those empowered spells at their unmodified levels left me thinking. Can you scribe a scroll or craft a wand using those spells? Can you, say, scribe a scroll of extended mage armor (caster level 1, lasts two hours) using a metamagic rod of extend, and since the spell is still level 1 and the minimum caster level 1, still cost 25 gps?

 

[Shallown]

I wouldn't let someone. I would let them do it as if they had the feat. So caster level 3 for a 2 level spell or 150 gp for a 6 hour mage armor.

For the technical answer.
Metamagic rods are use activated. Scribing a scroll does not cast the spell just uses it. You don't actually cast fireball during a scribing of it so therefore can't activate the rod.

But I like to be flexible but still not let players cirumvent the spirit/fairness of the rules.

later

 

[the Jester]

Eeeek!!!

I wouldn't allow that either, but it would be worth asking your dm- I don't think, by the RAW, there's anything that prevents you from doing this.

 

[Someone]

Oh, I wouldn´t -or let one player- do it but I was wondering if the rules technically would allow it. Actually, metamagic rods "confers [...] only the ability to use the given feat a specific number of times" I´d say that the caster, if he´s not a spontaneous caster, still has to prepare the metamagiced (sp?) spell in the normal way, only that the level is not changed. And when crafting items , the SRd says "The act of working on the [item] triggers the prepared spells, making then unavailable for casting during each day of the [item]´s creation (That is, those spell slots are expended from his currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast)" Scribing a scroll does not only use the spell, actually "casts" it.

Actually, I´m thinking that this question applies too to abilities and epic feats that allow the reduction of the increased level for metamagic.

 

[Shallown]

Copied from SRD

Metamagic Rods: Metamagic rods hold the essence of a metamagic feat but do not change the spell slot of the altered spell. All the rods described here are use-activated (but casting spells in a threatened area still draws an attack of opportunity). A caster may only use one metamagic rod on any given spell, but it is permissible to combine a rod with metamagic feats possessed by the rod’s wielder. In this case, only the feats possessed by the wielder adjust the spell slot of the spell being cast.


Scribe Scroll


The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires. If casting the spell would reduce the caster’s XP total, she pays the cost upon beginning the scroll in addition to the XP cost for making the scroll itself. Likewise, a material component is consumed when she begins writing, but a focus is not. (A focus used in scribing a scroll can be reused.) The act of writing triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot is expended from her currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.)


I added the bold to point out the technical answer is No you can't do this. Unless you rule Triggers means the same thing as cast. I think the Italicized text indicates that he use activation is casting not preparing. It doesn't say that exactly but that is a reasonable guess.

But to be honest I like the idea of memorizing spells with the rod instaed of using it "spontaneously". They can be fairly powerful despite their cost and that limits without destroying there usefulness.

Later

 

[Someone]

But to be honest I like the idea of memorizing spells with the rod instaed of using it "spontaneously". They can be fairly powerful despite their cost and that limits without destroying there usefulness.

Later

The wording is ambiguous, but that interpretation is reasonable given that rods give the ability to use the feat a specific number of times per day. That is, you actually use the pseudo-feat, and nowhere says that you can apply it on the fly (though it´s suggested, I agree). The use activated part is still relevant for spontaneous casters, and for non-spontaneous; simply, they use the rods when preparing spells.

 

[Pyrex]

The rules are somewhat ambiguous, but balance-wise you just shouldn't allow this.

If you do, expect a sudden surge in the number of Maximized Cure Light Wounds potions floating around; or *shudder* a Maximized Cure Light Wounds wand at CL1.

Allowing free metamagic from to rods to boost item creation at no additional cost totally breaks the item pricing model. It also makes it so that no one in their right minds would ever create a magic item without using a metamagic rod.

 

[Pyrex]

simply, they use the rods when preparing spells.

The argument against this interpretation is pretty much the same as against letting the rods boost item creation.

In a campaign with any downtime (or a wizard who is willing to do a little planning ahead) using the rod at prep-time* is too good. Under that model, a wizard with a few days off could use a lesser rod to Maximize all of his 1-3 level spells. It gets even sillier if you have multiple rods and/or rods of higher levels.

*One way around this is to set a 24hr expiration on the MM effect of the rod. You prep the spell Maximized, but the Maximize fades away 24hrs later.