Metamagic Rods - Wiz vs Sor

[Stalker0]

Funny enough, bards do not need to increase the casting time when using metamagic rods!

Bye
Thanee

Why not, there still spontaneous casters.

 

[Thanee]

Why not, there still spontaneous casters.

And sorcerers are not?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Lamoni]

That's good enough, but then please have it balanced for all classes, not just one (or in other word, the first option I wrote up there, that the rods just give feat access and no "spontaneous metamagic" ability at all)!

Or you could create sorcerer metamagic rods, that work just like they do now for sorcerers (lets them gain access to a feat without raising the level), but doesn't have the spontaneous metamagic ability. They would obviously have to be cheaper since granting the spontaneous metamagic is a great benefit.

Then it would be more balanced. The wizard metamagic rods would be better, but cost more. The sorcerer could afford to get more rods because they would be cheaper, but they are less powerful. You could do this within the rules too since you would be creating your own item.

Personally, I like the idea of just granting the spontaneous metamagic to both wizards and sorcerers and therefore not increasing the casting time... but this isn't exactly within the rules as written.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Or you could create sorcerer metamagic rods, that work just like they do now for sorcerers (lets them gain access to a feat without raising the level), but doesn't have the spontaneous metamagic ability. They would obviously have to be cheaper since granting the spontaneous metamagic is a great benefit.

So, in other words, they'd do exactly what they do now for Sorcerers, they'd just cost less?

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Could someone check the Sudden Metamagic Feat section in the Miniature Handbook. They say in there, IIRC, that the use of a Sudden Metamagic Feat mimics the use of a Metamagic Rod, and yet (I'm probably remembering wrong) they say that the casting time is not raised...

flb.

AR

 

[mikebr99]

Could someone check the Sudden Metamagic Feat section in the Miniature Handbook. They say in there, IIRC, that the use of a Sudden Metamagic Feat mimics the use of a Metamagic Rod, and yet (I'm probably remembering wrong) they say that the casting time is not raised...

flb.

AR

You are remembering correctly... "A sudden metamagic feat doesn't require a full-round action from casters who choose spells as they cast them, such as sorcerers & bards."


Mike

 

[Lamoni]

So, in other words, they'd do exactly what they do now for Sorcerers, they'd just cost less?

That is exactly what I was saying. But it would also give the wizard the opportunity to buy the cheaper rods... he would just have to choose what spells to metamagic with the rods ahead of time rather than doing it spontaneously.

 

[jgsugden]

I play in a game that has two arcane spellcasters: my friends wizard and my sorcerer. We recently went through a long dungeon based upon the Temple of Elemental Evil. During these adventures, the differecnes between wizards and sorcerers were clearly highlighted.

During one session, we were forced to go a long time without resting. The wizard and I both began the day hurling fireballs at our enemies, but by the 4th encounter, he was nearly out of combat spells. My sorcerer, OTOH, was still effectively running at full strength. I continued to blast away the armies of the enemy while he was forced into wand duty, using our pack of wands to do useful things like zap 1st level magic missiles, zap mage armor to the monk (who already had +3 bracers of armor), etc ... I added 200+ kills to my character's list. At the end of the day, we had cleaned out all the fodder guarding the 'BBEG', but we lacked the resources to tackle the enemy. We rested and ended the session.

The next session began with out assault on the BBEG. The wizard had prepared the exact spells he needed to face the foe. My spell selection, though broad and well designed (IMHO), didn't have the correct specialized spells to take advantage of our foes weaknesses. I used up a lot of spells on buffing up the party (to the extent that I cast bull's strength on the wizard's cat familiar) and saved a few spells of each level in case there were any surprises in the final battle.

There were no surpises. It was as we thought it would be based upon our research and surveillance. My spells chipped in, but they were not optimal for the situation. The wizard's choices were optimized and incredibly effective. My sorcerer was almost meaningless in the final battle. I did toss off one particularly useful spell from a scroll, but the foe's SR made the spell meaningless.

I was the broom that swept away the fodder. The wizard was the scalpel that cut out the heart of our enemy.

Each class has a strength. Much like a paladin and fighter use the same weapon list, the wizard and sorcerer share a spell list, but their use is incredibly different.

 

[Thanee]

I agree, but what has it to do with the question at hand?

Are you telling, what I think as well, that the balance between the classes is fine and there is no need for silly rules like "sorcerers need full-round actions to use metamagic rods, altho there is no reason why they should do so"?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

Funny enough, bards do not need to increase the casting time when using metamagic rods!

It depends if you consider 'sorcerer' in the text of the Metamagic Rod to be a shorthand example, or an exclusive list of one.

I'd certainly apply the full round action casting time to a bard, or to a druid or cleric spontaneously casting a Cure/Inflict/Summon with a Metamagic Rod.

-Hyp.