Metamagic Rods - Wiz vs Sor

[Thanee]

It depends if you consider 'sorcerer' in the text of the Metamagic Rod to be a shorthand example, or an exclusive list of one.

Well, there is not much considering there. It only lists the sorcerer, otherwise it could say spontaneous spellcasters or whatever.

But... even if it would apply to all spontaneous spellcasting... the rule would still make no sense. There is simply no reason why they would have to spend more time using the item (or others less, from whatever angle you might want to see it).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Gizzard]

Each class has a strength. Much like a paladin and fighter use the same weapon list, the wizard and sorcerer share a spell list, but their use is incredibly different.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. To extend on it a little, when the Sorcerer is "on" he tends to be a bit of an artillery piece, throwing multiple high-damage spells over the course of a day's combat. Thus, he has greater synergy with the Metamagic Rod than the Wizard who doesn't function as artillery as often. (I ignore the thing about Bards, never played with a high level Bard. ;-) )

Uhh....considering that all metamagic rods have a usage limit per day, you realize this doesn't make a whole lot of sense, right?

The usage limit is true, but the function of the Sorcerer has more synergy with the Rod than the function of the Wizard. In the case I am thinking of the Sorcerer threw 1 Maximized, Empowered Lightning Bolt, 2 Maximized (Empowered?) Magic Missiles, 2 Disintegrates and a Teleport as his 6 spells for the day, 3 maximized. The Wizard's spell loadout was split much more cautiously into offense, defense and exploration modes; he never used his Rod during combat since the right situation never came up.

The limit only comes into play for the Wizard if he has prepped spells that he is likely to maximize, such as spells of a proper elemental damage type. If he doesn't have the proper prep, he won't get to use the Rod fully. This applies to being conservative, by taking 1 Fireball, 1 Lightning Bolt and 1 Cone of Cold for instance. OTOH, as long as the Sorcerer knows a relevant spell, he will use it fully. Opponents immune to fire? The Sorcerer can throw 3 Maximized Lightning Bolts if he so chooses. So the Sorcerer has greater synergy with the Rod.

I hope that makes sense. I'm not sure my explanation is the clearest.

 

[Falling Icicle]

The usage limit is true, but the function of the Sorcerer has more synergy with the Rod than the function of the Wizard. In the case I am thinking of the Sorcerer threw 1 Maximized, Empowered Lightning Bolt, 2 Maximized (Empowered?) Magic Missiles, 2 Disintegrates and a Teleport as his 6 spells for the day, 3 maximized. The Wizard's spell loadout was split much more cautiously into offense, defense and exploration modes; he never used his Rod during combat since the right situation never came up.

I can't understand why you think the Sorcerer has more "synergy" with a metamagic rod than a Wizard does. I have always had at least 3 good offensive spells prepared, and usually many, many more than that. I would certainly get no less mileage from a maximize rod than I would as a Sorcerer. And yeah, not every Wizard prepares that many offensive spells every day. And not every Sorcerer loads up on a spell selection full of offensive spells either. A Sorcerer based heavily on enchantment or abjuration wouldn't get much "synergy" from a metamagic rod either. And yes, such characters do exist.

 

[Thanee]

Ahem, and if a wizard actually has a rod of maximise spell, he surely won't prepare those three offensive spells to get the most out of it... yeah, right!

And don't forget, synergy or not, that metamagic rods already are like ten times as powerful for wizards as they are for sorcerers, allowing them to spontaneously apply metamagic in addition to any other benefit (mostly not adding to the spell level and not needing the feat).

Bye
Thanee

 

[pyk]

Personally, as I play 3.0 and the rods do not exist yet, I don't care.

But, if and when the group switches to 3.5, the first change will be to those. Probably just outright ban, or delete the part about extending sorc time. Could also be to extend the time for ALL casters, period (no quicken rod). Don't know yet.

Which means, though I don't care about the rods, I agree that there's a problem with the rods that should be fixed.

 

[Thanee]

Personally, as I play 3.0 and the rods do not exist yet, I don't care.

Did you ever look into Tome & Blood?

Bye
Thanee

 

[pyk]

Did you ever look into Tome & Blood?

Bye
Thanee

OK, just went to the bookstore and checked it out. Doesn't matter, as I don't have the book, ergo, the rods do not exist in my 3.0 game.

Now, I know that the rods have been discussed many times, but I just now looked at the wording for myself, and have not been involved in the game.

Metamagic Rods: Metamagic rods hold the essence of a metamagic feat but do not change the spell slot of the altered spell. All the rods described here are use-activated (but casting spells in a threatened area still draws an attack of opportunity). A caster may only use one metamagic rod on any given spell, but it is permissible to combine a rod with metamagic feats possessed by the rod?s wielder. In this case, only the feats possessed by the wielder adjust the spell slot of the spell being cast.
Possession of a metamagic rod does not confer the associated feat on the owner, only the ability to use the given feat a specified number of times per day. A sorcerer still must take a full-round action when using a metamagic rod, just as if using a metamagic feat he possesses.

In this, I don't understand where anyone gets the idea that a wizard is allowed to use this rod on-the-fly to his spells. It specifically states "the ability to use" the feat on his/her spells. NO WHERE in the description is the wizard allowed to use this rod as an enhancer to his spells when he casts them, ergo he can only use these when he prepares his spells.

Now, where is the harm in this? This is the same wording as the Tome & Blood, if I remember correctly, as well. And, don't say it's in the FAQ, as I feel the FAQ is a great collection of house rules, and don't belong in any real games.

 

[Thanee]

Yeah, I thought that too... until I read the description of the individual rods...

Example:

Metamagic, Empower: The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are empowered as though using the Empower Spell feat.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Caliban]

Is this correct?

Wizards can cast spells enhanced with a metamagic rod as a standard action while sorcerers need a full-round action?

That absolutely makes no sense...

Either the spell confers the ability to use the feat (in which case the sorcerer needs a full-round action, but the wizard would have to prepare a spell in advance, using the rod to metamagic it) or it enhances the spell being cast (in which case both should need just a standard action, as the rod does the necessary manipulation).

Bye
Thanee

I think it was because the designers want to keep Quickned spells out of the hands of sorcerers.

 

[Thanee]

...and at the same time give wizards the ability to spontaneously apply metamagic...

...including Quicken Spell !!

Not really what I understand as balanced.

Bye
Thanee