[MHB] +6 on all attributes for 200,000 ?

[Kae'Yoss]

In my opinion, one belt and 5 ioun stones of +6 to one ability is much more valuable than a single item of +6 to all abilities because the belt and ioun stones can be distributed over the entire party to yield maximum benefit, while the single item must be worn by one character.

-- Retan

I don't think "fun for the whole family" should be a factor in Item Creation. The only disadvantage the all-in-one has is that you can suppress it with a single targeted dispelling. But as long as the enemy doesn't know what the item does (and I haven't seen anyone using analyse dweomer in combat lately), he has to get lucky.

Yes they would be. In the SRD, examples of diffrent abilities are bonus to attack and bonus to saves. These are certainly diffrent, whereas +6 to all stats are all stat bonuses. They may not be the same, but they are similar.

"Hey, I want that belt that makes me stronger."
"I get first dibs on that one. But you can take that headband. It makes you smarter. Same thing."

What is wrong with that conversation?

The fact that the 6 ability scores are the foundation of the character's abilities. They can't be more dissimilar.

 

[Artoomis]

Um, sure you could. Why, my 15th level fighter has four different Strength items, each of which provides a different type of +6 bonus. Let's hear it for 42 Strength!

How about a scared bonus? Or an unnamed bonus? Unusual? Sure. Allowed? I think so. Cost? High - double, at least, I'd say, for the stacking value of it.

Obviously such things should be allowed after a cold, long, hard look at game balance.

 

[wtdavid]

"Hey, I want that belt that makes me stronger."
"I get first dibs on that one. But you can take that headband. It makes you smarter. Same thing."

What is wrong with that conversation?

The fact that the 6 ability scores are the foundation of the character's abilities. They can't be more dissimilar.

I didnt' say str and int were similar, but both magic bonuses are similar. They both enhance an ability stat. Once again from the SRD and what defines different.

Multiple Different Abilities: Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that do take up a space on a character’s body each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price

 

[Grog]

Well, in our case, it doesn't actually give you something obscure you never use. It just raises all the ability scores, which are all useful (unless you play an extreme like 100% dungeon crawl without CHA score), so this one shouldn't get a discount.

They're all useful, true, but they aren't equally useful. +6 Str is far more valuable to a fighter than +6 Wis or Cha. +6 Int is far more valuable to a wizard than +6 Str or Cha. If I were playing a fighter, there's no way I'd shell out 300,000+ gp for a +6 to all my stats. I'd get +6 to Str and Con and maybe Dex depending on the kind of fighter I was playing, get by with +2 or +4 to my other stats, and have lots of money left over.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I didnt' say str and int were similar, but both magic bonuses are similar. They both enhance an ability stat. Once again from the SRD and what defines different.

As always in item creation, common sense has to decide what is similar and what not. Two enhancement bonuses to an ability score may seem similar on the paper, but their effect is very different: One makes you stronger, the other smarter. They aren't related in any way. If you had one that made your sense of sight better and another that made your sense of hearing better, I'd call them similar. A bonus to reflex saves against breath weapons and a bonus to will saves against a dragon's fear aura would also fit the same theme. But stronger and smarter are two dotally different things, and balance alone cries for calling them dissimilar, so you won't get a discount on all your stats

 

[Grog]

How about a scared bonus? Or an unnamed bonus? Unusual? Sure. Allowed? I think so. Cost? High - double, at least, I'd say, for the stacking value of it.

Obviously such things should be allowed after a cold, long, hard look at game balance.

I don't necessarily disagree, but let's not venture off into house rules here. All other things being equal, would you rather have +6 to all stats or +12 to one stat?

I think most characters would much prefer to have the latter. I could see a monk or perhaps a paladin taking the +6 to all stats item, but most everyone else would probably take take the +12 to one stat. Not all stats are of equal value.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

They're all useful, true, but they aren't equally useful. +6 Str is far more valuable to a fighter than +6 Wis or Cha. +6 Int is far more valuable to a wizard than +6 Str or Cha. If I were playing a fighter, there's no way I'd shell out 300,000+ gp for a +6 to all my stats. I'd get +6 to Str and Con and maybe Dex depending on the kind of fighter I was playing, get by with +2 or +4 to my other stats, and have lots of money left over.

Fact is that there are indeed several character concepts that need 4 or more ability scores (I can think of concepts without any dump stat). They would love to have a +6 to all item.

A typical fighter, on the other hand, wouldn't want that item at all. He needs two or three stats high, so he wouldn't buy a +6 to all no matter what the cost. He would settly for a +6 for three or something like that. Of course, if you give away the rest of the bonuses, he will get that...

 

[dagger]

Um, sure you could. Why, my 15th level fighter has four different Strength items, each of which provides a different type of +6 bonus. Let's hear it for 42 Strength!

I thought (and my game group)that items that did the same thing, like give an enhancment bonus to the same stat , didn't stack?

Kind of like Bulls Strength is worthless on a person with a belt of giant strength (or so we thought).

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I don't necessarily disagree, but let's not venture off into house rules here. All other things being equal, would you rather have +6 to all stats or +12 to one stat?

I think most characters would much prefer to have the latter. I could see a monk or perhaps a paladin taking the +6 to all stats item, but most everyone else would probably take take the +12 to one stat. Not all stats are of equal value.

I can think of a lot of characters who would take the former.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I thought (and my game group)that items that did the same thing, like give an enhancment bonus to the same stat , didn't stack?

Kind of like Bulls Strength is worthless on a person with a belt of giant strength (or so we thought).

We aren't talking about enchancement bonuses. You get one with +6 enhancement, one with +6 luck, one with +6 sacret, one with +6 whatever.....