Midnight - the dead

I guess that would really be a thing worthy of consideration, gathering the materials and all could even be a goosd start, trying to not make the shadow suspicious, i also consideer that major elven settlements would make that with all their ajor heroes that die in combat.

I think this is often a thing overlooked anyway, since authors never factor this kind of magic in their thoughts. But keep in mind that the Shadow do not need bodies for anyone they might want to ressurrect, and they are brought in their own corpses, this could be a real issue as well, though only legates of great importance to their supriors would eb subject to this kind of spell, I believe.
 

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Nif,

That or ones they could torture/break some how to serve Izzy's needs, some how.

But mostly I think reincarnate powered warrior spirit dire animals might have some interesting applications down the road.

Certainly if they can "manifest" the former selves like say once per day or something.
 

In fact I think they couldn't ressurrect and then torturem, given that the one to be brought back would know who was trying to call him back, thus a legate. In my game the characters have managed to defeat and capture a legate instead of killing her, with that i am taking her to a prison.

The idea the elves have to keep her prisoner is that if they kill her she can be brought back, if she dies of old age in prison they will never have her back. cruel how to avoid her they ahev to keep her alive...

As to Dire Animals, I also like the idea, even without manifesting their old selves, being one of them has quite a few advantages, they retain their mental ability scores too, and advance the animal or take class levels to match their previous total -1. So beware the Dire Bear with Fighter levels!
 

Nifelhein said:
And Kae'Yoss, not going to some other plane does not mean becoming mad or soemthing like that

As far as I know, it does mean this in Midnight. I remember reading about all the discorporated spirits swirling around the borders of the world, stark raving mad for not being able to go to heaven.

first most of humans know no other life

They know no other life then swirling around the plane as dead, bodyless spirits?

I know that before Izrador draped the Veil across the planes, they were able to go to their reward.

second the dwarves and elves could not see anything better than to die twice to save their own kind

Well, the dying may be a cool thing to them. But the being dead, while not being able to go anywhere than back into your body, succumbing to the Fell's undying craving to feast upon the living, or to haunt people - I guess they can think of better (and that's why they do their elaborate burial procedures)

and third anyone being cast reincarnate upon is surely not one of those living life with only suffering and without hope under the shadow. ;)

There isn't another kind of living in the Last Age.
 

Kae'Yoss said:
As far as I know, it does mean this in Midnight. I remember reading about all the discorporated spirits swirling around the borders of the world, stark raving mad for not being able to go to heaven.

First editionwas silent on the issue, leaving it open to the ideas of the community as a whole, I read anything posted to both the yahoo group and the AtS site, and this closely resembles a suggestion of a maelstorm of souls, even having some manifestations for the livings. It was not in any midnight book at all.

In 2nd edition they gave the interpretation that 1st edition lacked with the eternal.

They know no other life then swirling around the plane as dead, bodyless spirits?

No other life than living under the shadow and suffering, they do not read or write, the shadow has been around for more than 3 generations.

I know that before Izrador draped the Veil across the planes, they were able to go to their reward.

Before the Veil came upon Aryth we do not even know if there were humans, we know elves and dwarves, as well as any other of the fey races (D&D demi-humans)did not exist. There is very very little knowledge of the times before the sundering, or even of the many ages between that and the birth of the current civilizations. For all we know the religion in Aryth is based on spirits and the world, not outer planes, demons and celestials and gods.

The only group that somehow may diverge from that are the ones who study the lore of the gods said to exist long ago, who could grant powers like Izrador do, of them they know little more then names and few paragraphs of description. They live in caradul, the capital of the elves and are called The Abandoned.

Well, the dying may be a cool thing to them. But the being dead, while not being able to go anywhere than back into your body, succumbing to the Fell's undying craving to feast upon the living, or to haunt people - I guess they can think of better (and that's why they do their elaborate burial procedures)

They do the elaborate because they believe the animation of the body is tied to a restless soul, whether they go somewhere or become somehting else is not known, in Midnight you cannot simply assume that all souls are eternal the way they are, you cannot take for granted that the souls are also sentient to a loss of something, that is not even hinted anywhere, it is not common sense too, it is your preference of interpretation.

And the way 2nd edition dealt with the spirits makes religion and beliefs in Aryth be much closer to how Taoism and other oriental religions deal with things than cristianism and the other ocidental religions do.

There isn't another kind of living in the Last Age.

There is. Dwarves are seeking death, elves try to avoid death as best as they can and kill as many as possible in the process, halflings try to avoid the shadow altogether, living their lives as nomads or agrarian communities, using magic to hide themselves, those who become slaves live without fighting or do what they can by sabotaging what they can and spying on their masters.

The sarcosans who live in the cities use intrigue and assassination instead of direct opposition, using very few of their time to this extent and living normal lifes on the rest. i could go on but the point is that going against the shadow is not what the majority of the people is doing, in fact msot of them have kept going, as if nothing changed, they are poor, uneducated, hopeless and without any strength or willpower to change that. We just do not make PCs out of those.

I do not midn debating though. ;)
 

Nifelhein said:
In fact I think they couldn't ressurrect and then torturem, given that the one to be brought back would know who was trying to call him back, thus a legate. In my game the characters have managed to defeat and capture a legate instead of killing her, with that i am taking her to a prison.

The idea the elves have to keep her prisoner is that if they kill her she can be brought back, if she dies of old age in prison they will never have her back. cruel how to avoid her they ahev to keep her alive...

As to Dire Animals, I also like the idea, even without manifesting their old selves, being one of them has quite a few advantages, they retain their mental ability scores too, and advance the animal or take class levels to match their previous total -1. So beware the Dire Bear with Fighter levels!

I would think that a prison uses up too many resources....I mean, there's the chance of escape and all. And maybe there are some spells she can use without material components or her holy symbol, in order to get someone to rescue her? Of course, turning her to stone, or using Baleful Polymorph to turn her into a snail and keep her in an aquarium or something, could work very well. She'd eventually lose her mind, whether it takes days or weeks, and then it would be easy to keep her prisoner for the rest of her life. And you don't have to worry about feeding her either :)

Banshee
 

Nifelhein said:
I guess that would really be a thing worthy of consideration, gathering the materials and all could even be a goosd start, trying to not make the shadow suspicious, i also consideer that major elven settlements would make that with all their ajor heroes that die in combat.

I think this is often a thing overlooked anyway, since authors never factor this kind of magic in their thoughts. But keep in mind that the Shadow do not need bodies for anyone they might want to ressurrect, and they are brought in their own corpses, this could be a real issue as well, though only legates of great importance to their supriors would eb subject to this kind of spell, I believe.

Absolutely. The Shadow has the capability of sending its people back. But I think it's less likely. The forces of the Shadow *do* fight amongst each other......I'm not sure how many Legates will spend their magic bringing back other Legates for instance. What with ambition and all. Thus the post in this thread about keeping them prisoner until the end of their lives is a good idea. But you'd have to do something to keep them from dying, so they could be brought back. Turning them into a helpless form, or cutting off their limbs or something like that.

There's a 7th-lvl spell in Oriental Adventures (I think in Way of the Ninja, or Secrets of the Scorpion) that turns the victim into a tree. They keep their mind, but basically are trapped as a tree for the rest of their life. And I *think* that the spell is Instantaneous in duration, rather than permanent, which could mean that it doesn't radiate magic. I could definitely see the elves doing something like that to captives.

Banshee
 

The prison I am making is actually inside the glamour of caradul, meaning escape is almost impossible, more than that it is made to keep those the Council of the Witch Queen deems possible to be brough back by the Shadow or his/her superiors.

It is an elite prison, spells are used to keep them held, but I am not really using any spell level higher than 6th to this, I am keepign the level of NPCs rather low, while they resist the spells used they are kept in a kind of cocoon, being poisoned and fed while held.

They are all taken to the place naked as well. It is more like a slaughter house, but without sending the subject to the dead, they prefer flesh to stone over other spells, for the same reasons you stated. It is not a conventional prison, and tyhey are not keeping the suvbjects intact once they are statues, or in one place. ;)
 

Nifelhein said:
The prison I am making is actually inside the glamour of caradul, meaning escape is almost impossible, more than that it is made to keep those the Council of the Witch Queen deems possible to be brough back by the Shadow or his/her superiors.

It is an elite prison, spells are used to keep them held, but I am not really using any spell level higher than 6th to this, I am keepign the level of NPCs rather low, while they resist the spells used they are kept in a kind of cocoon, being poisoned and fed while held.

They are all taken to the place naked as well. It is more like a slaughter house, but without sending the subject to the dead, they prefer flesh to stone over other spells, for the same reasons you stated. It is not a conventional prison, and tyhey are not keeping the suvbjects intact once they are statues, or in one place. ;)

But if you use "Flesh to Stone", then break the statue, it kills the character doesn't it? Which releases their soul so they could be brought back via True Resurrection?

Oh, and I found a loophole....PCs *can* use Raise Dead.....if one of the PCs has the "Healing" heroic path, they get Raise Dead at lvl 19 or 20..

Banshee
 

Yeah and the moment they try Raise Dead just watch all the Fell come pouring back in...along with more Legates than an S&M convention. :p :)

Nif,

Really? Legates can't just pull anyone back they want? Gee so much for the super power of a Legate. :p :)
 

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