Mighty Bows greater than +4

[Kai Lord]

Re: Re: Re: Mighty Bows greater than +4

Wow. I play an Archer, I know just how deadly archery can be even with the +4 limitation.

I'd be really hesitant to add this one into my campaign.

But IIRC, Kai Lord already plays a PA so I guess this can't be any worse, really

Did I ever tell you about the time a Frost Giant king riding a white dragon swooped down on my character as he ran across a massive sheet of ice? He tore up the dragon's wing membranes with a volley of black-feathered arrows. The dragon couldn't support the giant with his wounded wings, crashed into the ice, and had its neck snapped by the weight of the giant. The Frost Giant survived a couple of rounds more...

This was back in the days of 1E when all that was necessary to take down a dragon with a bow were some nifty Unearthed Arcana archery rules, a Strength bow, and a good ol' 18/00. Converting the character to 3E, Peerless Archer only seemd appropriate.

 

[Xarlen]

Well, that's because the dragon was stupid.

When the weight was getting bad, it should've done a barrel roll, and dumped that giant on his big frosty urse. Or the *Dragon* landing on the giant.

Ah well. Here's to the next generation of intelligent white dragons.

 

[Taren Seeker]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Mighty Bows greater than +4

Did I ever tell you about the time a Frost Giant king riding a white dragon swooped down on my character as he ran across a massive sheet of ice? He tore up the dragon's wing membranes with a volley of black-feathered arrows. The dragon couldn't support the giant with his wounded wings, crashed into the ice, and had its neck snapped by the weight of the giant. The Frost Giant survived a couple of rounds more...

This was back in the days of 1E when all that was necessary to take down a dragon with a bow were some nifty Unearthed Arcana archery rules, a Strength bow, and a good ol' 18/00. Converting the character to 3E, Peerless Archer only seemd appropriate.

Oh man, I SO miss the "1/2 hps must land, 1/4 hps crash and burn" rules from 1e/2e! Axing those rules alone made Dragons so much more dangerous in 3e.

Oh, and coming from a 2e 13th level specialist fighter with a strength bow and a 19 strength? I know of what you speak.

My DM wasn't always too happy with me though. Serves him right for giving us a Deck. That and High Mastery. Bugger was just asking for it.

 

[Kai Lord]

Well, that's because the dragon was stupid.

When the weight was getting bad, it should've done a barrel roll, and dumped that giant on his big frosty urse. Or the *Dragon* landing on the giant.

Don't be silly.

Ah well. Here's to the next generation of intelligent white dragons.

With lateral thrusters, apparently.

 

[Kai Lord]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mighty Bows greater than +4

Oh man, I SO miss the "1/2 hps must land, 1/4 hps crash and burn" rules from 1e/2e! Axing those rules alone made Dragons so much more dangerous in 3e.

Oh, and coming from a 2e 13th level specialist fighter with a strength bow and a 19 strength? I know of what you speak.

My DM wasn't always too happy with me though. Serves him right for giving us a Deck. That and High Mastery. Bugger was just asking for it.

Heh. Right on. So is did you end up converting that guy? What's your Archer made up of in 3E?

 

[Xarlen]

Don't be silly.



With lateral thrusters, apparently.

How am I being silly? I think it's a Shame the dragon died that way. A waste of a dragon. And all it had to do was shift it's weight inward, to roll, so that it's back was towards the ground.

(A twist, not the looptie loop)

 

[Kai Lord]

How am I being silly?

Because I already said that its wings were damaged and couldn't support itself. It doesn't matter if there are no called shot rules in D&D, that was the flavor provided by the DM and he stood by it. The dragon crashed to the ground, and with no strength in its wings to turn itself and a 1000+ lb. Frost Giant on its back it fell like a rock. It wasn't incredibly high in the air, and was surprised to have the wings that supported it for hundreds of years suddenly fail and as it flapped wildly the next thing it knew it was in the ice with a crushed neck.

I think it's a Shame the dragon died that way. A waste of a dragon.

It was an incredibly cinematic moment, and i applaud the DM for not doing something cheap "just because it was a dragon." It became one of those defining moments for my character and made me love the campaign and character that much more. It became an encounter that I still remember fondly a full decade later, and to this day is the only time my character (who I still play) has ever faced a dragon. I can't imagine any higher satisfaction in a DM than presenting such an intense and endearing encounter. How was it wasted again?

 

[Xarlen]

Well, it doesn't Need it's wings. You telling me that you can't roll over on your side, when laying on the ground? Now, imagine doing that in a free-fall. Not to mention with a Big weight on your back. Just shift enough, and you turn. Considering how flexible dragons are, the writhing *twist* and it could've turned like a cat trying to land on it's feet.

Now, I can Understand if the damage that your bow did was enough to Kill it, and thus that was just the flavor text the DM gave (Inventive; I like it). If it wasn't, and the falling damage was, then okay (But it didn't fall that far). Seeing as people don't take damage from a heavy load of equipment when they fall, I wouldn't have given the same penalty to a dragon.

Seeing as the Dragon weighed more then the giant (Otherwise, how could the dragon Lift the giant?) I wouldn't think the weight would be enough to crush it, seeing as the Dragon would've weighed more. It's like saying the weight of a human would break a horse's neck.

As for the Waste, it's A) A dragon, who's damage reduction would've kicked in, B) The hight/weight as seen above wouldn't have done it, and C) I just hate seeing White dragons trashed easier then horses to Tucker's Kobolds.

Of course, this is 1e, so it's understandable.

I just see examples of people using Dragons like fancy orcs. One story I've heard is a 5th level mage killing a Great Red Wyrm by lining explosives around the cave entrance, and when the dragon poked it's head out, he used Burning Hands to blow it, and collapse the stone ontop of it. Or a Novel where a young (teen) king and an apprentice killed a Great Wrym Black dragon, who had survived centuries, wars with Elves, etc, etc.

Edit: Just remembered this one: Someone let a barbarian with a 18/00 str, back in 2e, on a Crit, reach down a small dragon's throat, and *pull it inside out*. Or letting a Mage make a called shot with a Fireball at a White Dragon's uvula.

I realize it's Character Changing, but in some cases, it's just going a little too far.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Before we go nuts with japanese generals sinking boats with bows which could only be strung by 12 men, lets just remember these are the same legends which have katanas slicing stone blocks in two, and single generals taking on entire regiments of armoured men. I've got a real feeling that a lot of those "a general did this" legends are actually talking about "a general and his army", but neglect to mention the army.

"Hey - did you hear that general so-and-so sunk a ship with his ballista"
"Whats a ballista?"
"Oh, it's like a really big bow which takes 12 men to use"

Get the picture?

However - I don't see any logical problems with creating mighty bows of any value, especially when you consider the wide range of materials and construction techniques available in the typical D&D campaign.

Hows about this - the maximum strength bonus allowed on a bow is equal to the hardness of the material used to make it? That means a wood bow is actually limited to +5 (close enough), an iron bow goes to 10, and mithril 15, adamantine 20.

You probably also want some sort of rule which states that you can't use a bow unless you can meet at least half it's strength requirement.

This is really starting to get into house rules.

 

[Kai Lord]

As for the Waste, it's A) A dragon, who's damage reduction would've kicked in, B) The hight/weight as seen above wouldn't have done it, and C) I just hate seeing White dragons trashed easier then horses to Tucker's Kobolds.

Wow. Do you over-analyze all the encounters you play in or hear about? The dragon fell and its neck snapped. In case you didn't know, you can break your neck jumping into a swimming pool 3 feet deep. The Int 8 White Dragon was a trained mount and had seconds to realize that it wasn't staying airborne.

If my arrows didn't kill it outright the DR-less dragon could take at most one more shot, and if so the DM decided it was going to go down on his terms, and went for the cinematic.