WotC Mike Mearls: "D&D Is Uncool Again"

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In Mike Mearls' recent interview with Ben Riggs, he talks about how he feels that Dungeons & Dragons has had its moment, and is now uncool again. Mearls was one of the lead designers of D&D 5E and became the franchise's Creative Director in 2018. He worked at WotC until he was laid off in 2023. He is now EP of roleplaying games at Chaosium, the publisher of Call of Chulhu.

My theory is that when you look back at the OGL, the real impact of it is that it made D&D uncool again. D&D was cool, right? You had Joe Manganiello and people like that openly talking about playing D&D. D&D was something that was interesting, creative, fun, and different. And I think what the OGL did was take that concept—that Wizards and this idea of creativity that is inherent in the D&D brand because it's a roleplaying game, and I think those two things were sundered. And I don’t know if you can ever put them back together.

I think, essentially, it’s like that phrase: The Mandate of Heaven. I think fundamentally what happened was that Wizards has lost the Mandate of Heaven—and I don’t see them even trying to get it back.

What I find fascinating is that it was Charlie Hall who wrote that article. This is the same Charlie Hall who wrote glowing reviews of the 5.5 rulebooks. And then, at the same time, he’s now writing, "This is your chance because D&D seems to be stumbling." How do you square that? How do I go out and say, "Here are the two new Star Wars movies. They’re the best, the most amazing, the greatest Star Wars movies ever made. By the way, Star Wars has never been weaker. Now is the time for other sci-fi properties", like, to me that doesn’t make any sense! To me, it’s a context thing again.

Maybe this is the best Player’s Handbook ever written—but the vibes, the audience, the people playing these games—they don’t seem excited about it. We’re not seeing a groundswell of support and excitement. Where are the third-party products? That’s what I'd ask. Because that's what you’d think, "oh, there’s a gap", I mean remember before the OGL even came up, back when 3.0 launched, White Wolf had a monster book. There were multiple adventures at Gen Con. The license wasn’t even official yet, and there were already adventures showing up in stores. We're not seeing that, what’s ostensibly the new standard going forward? If anything, we’re seeing the opposite—creators are running in the opposite direction. I mean, that’s where I’m going.

And hey—to plug my Patreon—patreon.com/mikemearls (one word). This time last year, when I was looking at my post-Wizards options, I thought, "Well, maybe I could start doing 5E-compatible stuff." And now what I’m finding is…I just don’t want to. Like—it just seems boring. It’s like trying to start a hair metal band in 1992. Like—No, no, no. Everyone’s mopey and we're wearing flannel. It's Seattle and rain. It’s Nirvana now, man. It’s not like Poison. And that’s the vibe I get right now, yeah, Poison was still releasing albums in the ’90s. They were still selling hundreds of thousands or a million copies. But they didn’t have any of the energy. It's moved on. But what’s interesting to me is that roleplaying game culture is still there. And that’s what I find fascinating about gaming in general—especially TTRPGs. I don’t think we’ve ever had a period where TTRPGs were flourishing, and had a lot of energy and excitement around them, and D&D wasn’t on the upswing. Because I do think that’s what’s happening now. We’re in very strange waters where I think D&D is now uncool.
 

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Welcome and thanks for posting. Yep, Tolkien, Vance, Lovecraft, Howard...they all evoke recognition, nostalgia, and positive feelings do to well-worn neural pathways. The popularity of fantasy also feels much more cyclical than other genres. It seems there is always one or more popular sci fi shows, or at least there are more widely popular sci fi shows per generation than fantasy.
In terms of book sales, Fantasy outpaces Sci-Fi by quite a bit.
 

THe primary issue here is that it's virtually impossible to get the growth numbers from 2024 D&D that 2014 D&D had. Doubling D&D in 2014 meant you managed to sell, what, a few thousand books? A few tens of thousands? How much would you have to sell today to double the D&D market? Tens of millions?

Of course the growth curve has leveled out. That's just math. But, of course, there will be those who have a vested interest in interpreting things in the most negative way possible. D&D is "uncool" because it's not growing as fast as it was in 2014-2017. Welcome to the wonderful world of an actual mature product that doesn't see double digit growth year on year. That's the difference between a boom/bust product, which is what D&D was for 40 years, and an actual, mature, evergreen product that sees fairly flat or very modest growth for a very long time.

Sure, it would be fantastic if we would continue to see double digit growth year on year. I'd love that and I'm sure WotC and Hasbro would be freaking over the moon if that were true. But, it's unrealistic. Since there's no actual evidence of any sort of shrinking, I'm wondering what the purpose is of claiming that D&D isn't doing well. How is D&D "stumbling" to quote from the original article? Other than some serious tea leaf reading, I'm not seeing any actual evidence that D&D is doing any differently today than it was a year ago.

How is that a bad thing?
Because D&D's overdominance is bad
 


Because D&D's overdominance is bad

If it weren't for DnD there would just be a different system that dominated that people complained about. That or the hobby would be much, much smaller. I get that people love to complain about the big guy and certainly sometimes it's justified. But for the most part it just feels like people trying to be cool by dissing things other people happen to like, why else go to a site dedicated to a game just to trash talk it?
 

If it weren't for DnD there would just be a different system that dominated that people complained about. That or the hobby would be much, much smaller. I get that people love to complain about the big guy and certainly sometimes it's justified. But for the most part it just feels like people trying to be cool by dissing things other people happen to like, why else go to a site dedicated to a game just to trash talk it?

I started playing late 1993.
1996 visited the city and heard about how bad D&D was.
. "Where's your fantasy vampire game now bitches "?.
 


I think people should play the games they enjoy and stop worrying about what other people think. I don't see much point to going out of your way to tell people who like something how much you do not like that thing.

I don't care to much.

Odds are in a few years no one will care about tge RPG they're claiming is better. Smugface;)
 


I think people should play the games they enjoy and stop worrying about what other people think. I don't see much point to going out of your way to tell people who like something how much you do not like that thing.
Well, while I enjoy playing all kinds of TTRPGs, and do not look down on my friends who got really into VtM TTRPGs and LARP, I have to say Zardnaar's comment got a LOL from me. Those who remember the pretension in some VtM communities in the early '90s get it. I just read Z's comment as similar to those poking fun at gatekeeping grognards. As a grognard, though not very gatekeepy (well, maybe I have a very low, decorative picket fence), I can take a joke. I'm sure most of our WoD Kindred can as well.
 
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