Mike Mearls on D&D Psionics: Should Psionic Flavor Be Altered?

WotC's Mike Mearls has been asking for opinions on how psionics should be treated in D&D 5th Edition. I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he'd hinted that he might be working on something, and this pretty much seals the deal. He asked yesterday "Agree/Disagree: The flavor around psionics needs to be altered to allow it to blend more smoothly into a traditional fantasy setting", and then followed up with some more comments today.

"Thanks for all the replies! Theoretically, were I working on psionics, I'd try to set some high bars for the execution. Such as - no psionic power duplicates a spell, and vice versa. Psionics uses a distinct mechanic, so no spell slots. One thing that might be controversial - I really don't like the scientific terminology, like psychokinesis, etc. But I think a psionicist should be exotic and weird, and drawing on/tied to something unsettling on a cosmic scale.... [but]... I think the source of psi would be pretty far from the realm of making pacts. IMO, old one = vestige from 3e's Tome of Magic.

One final note - Dark Sun is, IMO, a pretty good example of what happens to a D&D setting when psionic energy reaches its peak. Not that the rules would require it, but I think it's an interesting idea to illustrate psi's relationship to magic on a cosmic level."

 

[darius0]

The need to change telekinesis to a less sciency name is like when they renamed dinosaurs, imo. Not needed.

Well that just like, your opinion, man. Seriously though, I liked alternate names for dinosaurs because it was good for roleplaying and I then dont have to think up the alternate names.

 

[Mercule]

I dont understand why WotC keeps forcing *their* campaign setting on *my* gaming table.

Branding.

That's my guess, anyway. Might not be necessarily important to WotC, but to the Hasbro Overlords, it seems very important. That "D&D's Psionics" can be quantified and used across media recognizable as "D&D's Psionics" ...and no one else's!

And this is why I periodically rail about the FR-centric nature of 5E, so far. The D&D "brand" is a non-specific fantasy table-top game explicitly lacking any hardwired connection to any specific setting and open to rampant reskinning for each group's table. I don't care what anyone at WotC says or wants -- it's impossible to "grow" the D&D brand without destroying its current identity. Settings, like Forgotten Realms, Eberron, or Dragonlance can have brands that span multiple media. I think the apparent confusion between D&D's brand and affiliated brands (the Realms) is potentially the biggest current threat to the long-term viability of both.

Take the Fate RPG. It wasn't created to play the Dresden Files. Dresden Files is a setting that has an RPG using the Fate mechanics. Trying to use Dresden to promote Fate might have some limited success, but it'd be incompetent to mix up your marketing too badly. No one in their right mind would try to place the Fate logo on the novels prominently (if at all). Yeah, I realize it's not quite apples to apples, but it's not incredibly far off. Wizards would be well served to adjust their perspective a bit on their IP.

 

[Yaarel]

@steeldragons [MENTION=5100]Mercule[/MENTION]

Yeah, it seems corporate branding is responsible for interfering with D&D creativity and openness.

If Hasbro WotC would restrict its branding to specific official settings, there would be less issue with the specific trademarks that are forced in that setting, because players can choose or make a different setting if they desire.

 

[steeldragons]

And this is why I periodically rail about the FR-centric nature of 5E, so far. The D&D "brand" is a non-specific fantasy table-top game explicitly lacking any hardwired connection to any specific setting and open to rampant reskinning for each group's table. I don't care what anyone at WotC says or wants -- it's impossible to "grow" the D&D brand without destroying its current identity. Settings, like Forgotten Realms, Eberron, or Dragonlance can have brands that span multiple media. I think the apparent confusion between D&D's brand and affiliated brands (the Realms) is potentially the biggest current threat to the long-term viability of both.

Take the Fate RPG. It wasn't created to play the Dresden Files. Dresden Files is a setting that has an RPG using the Fate mechanics. Trying to use Dresden to promote Fate might have some limited success, but it'd be incompetent to mix up your marketing too badly. No one in their right mind would try to place the Fate logo on the novels prominently (if at all). Yeah, I realize it's not quite apples to apples, but it's not incredibly far off. Wizards would be well served to adjust their perspective a bit on their IP.

[MENTION=92511]steeldragons[/MENTION]

Yeah, it seems corporate branding is responsible for interfering with D&D creativity and openness.

If Hasbro WotC would restrict its branding to specific official settings, there would be less issue with the specific trademarks that are forced in that setting, because players can choose or make a different setting if they desire.

Agreeds all around, on all counts.

 

[jrowland]

@steeldragons [MENTION=5100]Mercule[/MENTION]
If Hasbro WotC would restrict its branding to specific official settings, there would be less issue with the specific trademarks that are forced in that setting, because players can choose or make a different setting if they desire.

It seems a free basic version of D&D goes a long way towards restricting branding to official settings. The core rules, while peppered with sidebars pointing to settings, do a pretty good job of steering away from a specific setting as well. I expect no less for psionics.

However, that said, how "core" is psionics? My guess is not very (considering its not in the PHB), but more core than say Favored Souls which got an Unearthed Arcana workup. Introducing psionics in an adventure storyline (like genasi in the elemental storyline) would probably piss a lot of psionics fans off, and be wasted space for non-fans...so I'd expect something more.

Perhaps Mearls and co. are feeling the market out for a companion psionics player book to go along with a far realms adventure story arc. Like what was planned for elemental evil but scrapped. Psionics would certainly be big enough.

How would many of you feel if the psionics players book was relatively generic, but was "meant" for play in a story arc adventure that featured Far Realms?

 

[Fralex]

I am a bit concerned about the whole "a cure for the Far Realm disease" and here's why.

I don't want that to be the general origin of Psionics across the board. I can see that as the origin in a specific area but not as a whole. This wouldn't work for Dark Sun for instance because you don't see many Far Realms creatures running about Athas.

In the Forgotten Realms, I see Psionics as coming from mainly Mind Flayers and Aboleths. Remember Clan Duergar were experimented on by the Illithids which in turn gave us the dwarven subrace that developed Psionics from all the experiments. I may be incorrect, but I seem to remember Mind Flayers coming from the future and not the Far Realms so I could see a relevance to humanoids from the future having developed powers using the mind and these creatures brought it with them to the past and those abilities were passed on.

I think they need to stick with a general and not a specific origin to Psionics because it doesn't cover everything.

That's cool, you can also flavor it more generally as a power that comes from a mental "Awakening" of some sort. Some new way of thinking about the nature of the world that gives you power over it. It's not really a secret, like the arcane is. It's just some piece of knowledge that is almost impossible to grasp, but once you do, gaining more power is simply a matter of refining the techniques you know. One Weird Trick, if you will. It's not a spiritual enlightenment per se, I guess you could call it an enlightenment of the soul (mysticism fun fact: the soul is the source of will in an individual, allowing them to be self-aware and actively use their mind; the spirit is the vital energy that powers all living things).

It can come from exposure to things that seemingly defy all notions of natural law and sanity, the revelation of some universal truth that is beyond horrifying, and not letting it break you. Instead, some hidden part of your mind you never used before gets painfully stirred into action, giving you the power to fight back against madness itself. Thus, an infection from the Far Realm on a large enough scale would lead to a rude Awakening for lots and lots of individuals who are open to it (others would just go hopelessly insane). This should not, of course, mean that things from the Far Realm do not scare you or test the limits of your sanity; it just means you're better at resisting it than others. Ooh, if you're using Sanity as an ability score, psions would be perfect for it, as a spellcasting ability. I can think of plenty of stories about mad wizards or mad priests, but the idea of a mad psychic sounds wrong somehow. They might seem mad or illogical to people who can't grasp this truth, but their mind is crystal clear. No, I think psionics is inherently based on understanding, in full, the forces behind your power. And this truth, whatever it is, should be impossible to learn directly from someone else. No words of any language come close to being able to describe it. It has to come from within.

And not all Awakenings are traumatic. Some come to this knowledge by a wondrous inspiration, or from years of meditation at the foot of a master (who cannot explain the power, but can help guide them to coming to their own realization). You might even work it out completely on your own. But I feel like this concept of being awakened, of gaining understanding of some powerful truth that cannot be explained to anyone else, is where psionics gets its unique flavor.

TL;DR The key source of psionic power is an awakening revelation, a single piece of knowledge that when understood, gives you everything you need to use psionics. The Far Realm is so alien to conventional knowledge that it can, if you're lucky, lead to your awakening rather than your madness. But there are other ways to reach this psionic enlightenment, too.

 

[Ristamar]

How would many of you feel if the psionics players book was relatively generic, but was "meant" for play in a story arc adventure that featured Far Realms?

I'm hoping it's not a separate book at all, unless we're talking about a 16-32 page PDF or print-on-demand softcover.

It'd also make sense if optional Psionics rules are included as part of an official published adventure path/book.

 

[GobiWon]

The use of the feat mechanic to gain access to two of the six psionic disciplines and then the use of this as a prerequisite to gain a unique psionicist class that could include sub-classes that included the psion, psychic warrior, soul knife, and wilder. Powers would use a point base system and each power would have discipline prerequisites. Concentration would play an important role in most powers. Options to overpower effects and increase duration would have a fatigue mechanic based on constitution.

Stylistically, the use of pseudo-scientific terms and their medieval counterparts should continue. The system has to be robust enough to include many different types of play. Inner psychic powers develop a multitude of ways. It can be triggered by contact with the far realm or the result of an innate ability to connect to a force that permeates through all living things. It needs to be at home in Lovecraftian horror or stories about mystic space knight. It needs to replicate the powers of Deryni or Dark Suns denizens.

 

[fjw70]

Granted, I don't really care either way how they flavour the "source" of psionics. 5e uses "the Weave" as the source of magic. Certainly doesn't apply to my game. Whatever source they come up with, will likely have about as much impact on my game as the Weave.

Agreed. The flavor they give it is the least important aspect. I want them to provide good mechanics.

 

[GobiWon]

Psionic Feats

The use of the feat mechanic to gain access to two of the six psionic disciplines and then the use of this as a prerequisite to gain a unique psionicist class that could include sub-classes that included the psion, psychic warrior, soul knife, and wilder. Powers would use a point base system and each power would have discipline prerequisites. Concentration would play an important role in most powers. Options to overpower effects and increase duration would have a fatigue mechanic based on constitution.

Stylistically, the use of pseudo-scientific terms and their medieval counterparts should continue. The system has to be robust enough to include many different types of play. Inner psychic powers develop a multitude of ways. It can be triggered by contact with the far realm or the result of an innate ability to connect to a force that permeates through all living things. It needs to be at home in Lovecraftian horror or stories about mystic space knight. It needs to replicate the powers of Deryni or Dark Suns denizens.

Psionic feats that allow you to gain access to two of the psionic disciplines would be roughly equivalent to cantrips and allow all character classes to potentially have some psionic ability. This gives it the feel of first and second edition while allowing the class specialization found in third.