Mike Mearls on D&D Psionics: Should Psionic Flavor Be Altered?

WotC's Mike Mearls has been asking for opinions on how psionics should be treated in D&D 5th Edition. I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he'd hinted that he might be working on something, and this pretty much seals the deal. He asked yesterday "Agree/Disagree: The flavor around psionics needs to be altered to allow it to blend more smoothly into a traditional fantasy setting", and then followed up with some more comments today.

"Thanks for all the replies! Theoretically, were I working on psionics, I'd try to set some high bars for the execution. Such as - no psionic power duplicates a spell, and vice versa. Psionics uses a distinct mechanic, so no spell slots. One thing that might be controversial - I really don't like the scientific terminology, like psychokinesis, etc. But I think a psionicist should be exotic and weird, and drawing on/tied to something unsettling on a cosmic scale.... [but]... I think the source of psi would be pretty far from the realm of making pacts. IMO, old one = vestige from 3e's Tome of Magic.

One final note - Dark Sun is, IMO, a pretty good example of what happens to a D&D setting when psionic energy reaches its peak. Not that the rules would require it, but I think it's an interesting idea to illustrate psi's relationship to magic on a cosmic level."

 

[Nifft]

This is one that I don't think is doable without something like 3.5 dual progression prestige classes or some kind of multiclassing kludge.

Then I hope you're making some kind of a bad assumption about the implementation.

The 3.5e multiclass kludge thing was necessary for 3.5e Wizard / Cleric mixing; it's not necessary for 5e Wizard / Cleric mixing.

That's what I want. Not needing a kludgestige class.

Besides, Sorcerers are only dipping 2 levels of Warlock for the enhanced Eldritch Blast, I doubt a balanced build would really be that effective.

You can dump Warlock encounter slots into Sorcery Points. Having higher-level slots is a benefit.

Warlock 3 can grant you Ritual casting, which you don't get otherwise as a Sorcerer.

Dunno about how well it scales up from there, but you're missing out if you ~always~ stop at Warlock 2.

I like 5e multiclassing, but I don't expect it to make every combination viable, and it doesn't.

Okay?

I'm saying that I want Psionic classes to have SOME viable multiclassing options with core classes, and I gave one example.

That's NOT the same as expecting every combination to be viable.

 

[Vael]

Then I hope you're making some kind of a bad assumption about the implementation.

My assumption is that Psions will not use spell slots. Therefore, they will not be getting any progression multiclassing with spellcasters. Just like the Elemental Monk doesn't.

 

[Yaarel]

spell slots = spell points

A slot is worth a number of points equal to its spell level plus its tier.

Tier 1 (levels 1 to 4): Apprentice (spell levels 1 and 2)
Tier 2 (levels 5 to 10): Journeyer (spell levels 3, 4, and 5)
Tier 3 (levels 11 to 16): Master (spell levels 6, 7 and 8)
Tier 4 (levels 17 to 20): Noble (spell level 9)

So a Level 17 Wizard (Noble Tier) can convert the spell level 9 slot to 13 spell points ( = 9 spell level + 4 tier).

 

[Yaarel]

5e spell mechanics are spontaneous and suitable for psionics.

Whenever desirable, it is easy to merge lower-level slots to form a higher-level slot, and oppositely, to split a higher one into form lower ones.

The D&D spell tradition has come to agree with the psionic tradition. Now everyone is spontaneous and can use points. There is no longer a need for irregular mechanics.

 

[Nifft]

My assumption is that Psions will not use spell slots. Therefore, they will not be getting any progression multiclassing with spellcasters. Just like the Elemental Monk doesn't.

But the Warlock does.

So I hope you're wrong in assuming that the Monk will be the model, rather than... basically any other casting class in the game.

Hmm, actually, I bet I can make a Warlock-style casting Elemental Monk which multiclasses better.

Thanks for the idea.

 

[GobiWon]

My assumption is that Psions will not use spell slots. Therefore, they will not be getting any progression multiclassing with spellcasters. Just like the Elemental Monk doesn't.

What if the Psion used "power" slots like the Warlock spell slots? I'm against any sort of ability to swap spell slots and psionic "power" slots. It doesn't feel right, but it makes multiclassing a psion with a spellcaster a horrible option power wise.

 

[GobiWon]

5e spell mechanics are spontaneous and suitable for psionics.

Whenever desirable, it is easy to merge lower-level slots to form a higher-level slot, and oppositely, to split a higher one into form lower ones.

The D&D spell tradition has come to agree with the psionic tradition. Now everyone is spontaneous and can use points. There is no longer a need for irregular mechanics.

I strongly disagree. It can't mesh like that or it won't feel like psionics.

 

[Sadrik]

And yet, companies- even mainstream ones- still find it quite profitable to produce flavors other than the big 3. There's enough money in the niches to make it worth their while. (They DO have to taste good to someone, though, so the flavors aren't entirely arbitrary.)

Why? Because the market is mature and saturated with sellers of the main flavors. Delivering new flavors- even if they aren't inherently profitable- work like advertising: they set you apart in the marketplace. I can get vanilla anywhere, but Texas sea-salt & caramel (actual flavor) is a rare bird, and people who like it will drive miles to get it...and possibly get your vanilla or chocolate at the same time.

A generic psi system may indeed be easier to include, but a solid creatively different may attract players you wouldn't normally get...and because of the free market, it may drive some away as well. Which it will do you can't know until the product is actually out there.

There is another market force here. Why does 31 flavors only have 31 flavors out? Because too many options can confuse the purchaser and cause analysis paralysis. We as consumers of choices have to account for options in the same way, the bigger our pallet of options the bigger our chances of being unhappy with our selection. Too many options can cause us to feel uneasy with our actual choices. You see companies shear back their complexity, to make the consumer able to more accurately select the thing they desire most - or the one that clearly fits their needs. Infinite choices is not a good place to be. Fewer clear choices makes a happy consumer.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Why does 31 flavors only have 31 flavors out? Because too many options can confuse the purchaser and cause analysis paralysis.

Analysis paralysis is certainly one ingredient in that decision, but not the only one.

At some point, BR more or less standardized their business model. Deviating from the 31 increases costs.

In addition, there is also a cycle of availability based on the ingredients themselves. Freshness of product- or at least, PERCEIVED freshness of product- is a selling point.

Rotating the flavors also creates a refreshment of a different kind: newness. There is a psychological benefit to having something "new" in store every month or so. It will help drive foot traffic because people will want to see if there's anything among the new flavors that might appeal to them.

 

[Nifft]

I strongly disagree. It can't mesh like that or it won't feel like psionics.

Erudites could mesh Psi and Magic.

There's a core Wizard spell which gives you power points and Powers, so the exchange already went one way.

You're ignoring a bunch of D&D history.

But, here's the thing: even if the published Psionics D&D stuff meshes perfectly well in a mechanical sense, you're totally free to prohibit that multi-classing from ever happening at your table. Just like you could prohibit Divine / Arcane multiclasses from happening. The rules don't force you to accommodate every permutation into your own setting -- but they do support those groups who want that mesh to be an option. Like mine.

Rotating the flavors also creates a refreshment of a different kind: newness. There is a psychological benefit to having something "new" in store every month or so. It will help drive foot traffic because people will want to see if there's anything among the new flavors that might appeal to them.

Ben & Jerry's seems to thrive on new flavors.