Mike Mearls on D&D Psionics: Should Psionic Flavor Be Altered?

WotC's Mike Mearls has been asking for opinions on how psionics should be treated in D&D 5th Edition. I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he'd hinted that he might be working on something, and this pretty much seals the deal. He asked yesterday "Agree/Disagree: The flavor around psionics needs to be altered to allow it to blend more smoothly into a traditional fantasy setting", and then followed up with some more comments today.

"Thanks for all the replies! Theoretically, were I working on psionics, I'd try to set some high bars for the execution. Such as - no psionic power duplicates a spell, and vice versa. Psionics uses a distinct mechanic, so no spell slots. One thing that might be controversial - I really don't like the scientific terminology, like psychokinesis, etc. But I think a psionicist should be exotic and weird, and drawing on/tied to something unsettling on a cosmic scale.... [but]... I think the source of psi would be pretty far from the realm of making pacts. IMO, old one = vestige from 3e's Tome of Magic.

One final note - Dark Sun is, IMO, a pretty good example of what happens to a D&D setting when psionic energy reaches its peak. Not that the rules would require it, but I think it's an interesting idea to illustrate psi's relationship to magic on a cosmic level."

 

[Tony Vargas]

The parallel between body and mind, seems something like the following:

Intelligence : Dexterity :: Wisdom : Constitution :: Charisma : Strength

That's how I've always seen it.

The problem however is Wisdom conflates both perceptiveness and willpower, which have little to do with each other.

Beyond staying alert vs getting distracted or bored, I guess.

It is a problem. Even in its fifth edition, the abilities of D&D remain largely incoherent and meaningless.

That seems harsh. Even in it's 0th edition, the abilities didn't seem that out of line.

True, they do often combine only marginally related things. Dexterity is both manual dexterity and agility. Wisdom is will, strength of character, perceptiveness /and/ common sense. CHA has been both looks and personality, as well as externally-focused will.

In D&D, the Wisdom ability is way overpowered compared to the other two mental abilities.

Because of perception and WIS saves being so common? CHA is used heavily in interaction, which is, supposedly, 1/3rd the game.

If Wisdom split into two abilities, Willpower and Perception, the four would become more balanced with each other. Even if Intelligence absorbed Perception, becoming responsible for both Knowledge and Perception checks, the three classic abilities would become more balanced with each other.

The former is not something I'd expect WotC to suggest. The latter other games, like Hero, have done in the past. Not sure, exactly, when WIS became perception. Obviously it was in 3e, and in 1e, 'perception' was all a matter of d6 and % rolls to hear noise or avoid surprise or whatever - I drifted off for the second half of 2e, and didn't always notice all the differences between it and 1e, even when I was running it.

 

[Yaarel]

[The D&D abilities remain largely incoherent and meaningless.]

That seems harsh. Even in it's 0th edition, the abilities didn't seem that out of line.

The D&D abilities are largely incoherent and meaningless.

Even in the previous post, a person wanted Intelligence to be responsible for the Telepathy discipline - this makes no sense!

Since when does an ability that is responsible for book lore enable a person to supernaturally mindmeld with an other person?

Moreover, the Telepathy discipline is mostly powers that project at, influence, and persuade the other mind. One would normally think these kinds of powers would relate to Charisma.

But you know what? Why not Intelligence? Since none of the abilities ever mean anything consistent anyway!

 

[Yaarel]

I hope for psionics to be mental only. Thus no dependence on physical Constitution.

Enchantment (Telepathy)
Charisma (mental engagement, mental persuasion)

Transmutation (Psychometabolism)
Wisdom (mental willpower, also body awareness like 3e Autohypnosis psionic skill)

Divination (Clairsentience)
Wisdom (perception) ... (unless Intelligence becomes responsible for perception)

Illusion (Metacreativity, subjective phantasm, objective phenomenon, light, dark, radiant)
Charisma? (persuasion), Wisdom? (perception)

Teleportation (Psychoportation)
Wisdom (perception, same as Clairsentience, send mind to a place then bring body to mind)

Force (invisible Telekinesis, fly, gravity, force field, force damage, magic energy; not elemental)
Charisma (mental projection)

Evocation (elemental Psychokinesis, Air Water Fire and Earth = lightning thunder cold fire acid)
Intelligence (memory and knowledge of elemental mystical properties)

 

[Tony Vargas]

Even in the previous post, a person wanted Intelligence to be responsible for the Telepathy discipline - this makes no sense!

Since when does an ability that is responsible for book lore enable a person to supernaturally mindmeld with an other person?

Well, if it's responsible for book lore, that'd include literacy, and he is 'reading' your mind.

Moreover, the Telepathy discipline is mostly powers that project at, influence, and persuade the other mind. One would normally think these kinds of powers would relate to Charisma.

One would, I agree. But mere communication might be INT.

But you know what? Why not Intelligence? Since none of the abilities ever mean anything consistent anyway!

That's the spirit.

 

[Staffan]

Assassin was only a full class in two editions (being a PrC and a kit in 3e and 2e respectively) and really didn't offer much over a the regular rogue class.

Technically, it also came in as a full class near the tail end of 2e in the Scarlet Brotherhood sourcebook. The description there might as well have been a thief kit, though.

 

[GobiWon]

The D&D abilities are largely incoherent and meaningless.

Even in the previous post, a person wanted Intelligence to be responsible for the Telepathy discipline - this makes no sense!

Since when does an ability that is responsible for book lore enable a person to supernaturally mindmeld with an other person?

Moreover, the Telepathy discipline is mostly powers that project at, influence, and persuade the other mind. One would normally think these kinds of powers would relate to Charisma.

But you know what? Why not Intelligence? Since none of the abilities ever mean anything consistent anyway!

I see your point about charisma and wisdom, but intelligence is more than book lore. It is the ability to understand complex things quickly. Wisdom and Charisma is already the prime stat. for multiple classes. Hyper-intelligence has always been associated with psi powers in popular culture. You can argue that these individuals had increased stats in all three mental abilities, but having all three as prime stats is a little much to ask of a class and having a different prime stat for subclasses seems to go against the design principle associated with 5e.

... with all that I concede that wisdom and charisma are more appropriate for some psi abilities.

 

[GobiWon]

Perhaps the primary psion class requires intelligence with each of the subclasses requiring a different secondary ability score ... wisdom, charisma, or constitution.

 

[Yaarel]

Honestly, I feel, Charisma has to be the primary casting ability of the Psion base class.

A person who is psionic has a ‘presence’. This is clearly Charisma.

Also, Charisma often represents innate magical abilities.

How the Psion uses this ‘gift’, then depends on their secondary ability.

The primary ability, Charisma, is the casting ability for every power. But the secondary ability has significant riders.

How about something like this ...



Cha-Int = Force (Psychokinesis, Fly, Force Damage) + Evocation (Elemental Kinesis)

Cha-Wis = Divination (Clairsentience) + Enchantment (Telepathy) + Illusion (Metacreativity)

Cha-Con = Transmutation (Psychometabolism) + Teleport (Psychoportation)



Downplay any Summoning or Necromancy (necrotic damage, ghost, undead, negative energy), because they are too external, but either might make sense in a certain kind of setting.



At the same time as a separate Psion class, I also want a Wizard archetype that uses Intelligence to figure out spells and then manifests them psionically. With an ‘eidetic spellbook’, photographically memorizing spells, instead of carrying around a spellbook.

 

[bogmad]

Intelligence works well enough for me for that cold, calculating alien type... sometimes with pointy ears, melding minds...
But I have scifi bleeding into my fantasy!!
You could argue someone of the scifi trope I'm referring to also has an overwhelming Charisma, but I don't see it. A psion shouldn't also default to being the Face and negotiator for the party, though I could certainly see CHA as a secondary stat for certain builds.

 

[Yaarel]

Psions can function as a party face. Theyre telepaths and charmers. They know what people want, know how to convince, and can even psychically predict the best way to do it.


Actually ... Spock has extremely high Charisma.

Presence and all.