D&D 5E Mind Blank against Command

[vlysses]

I have gone through many discussions regarding the effects of Mind Blank. Could not find a good source to establish whether it is supposed to work or not against Command. There is nothing in the Command spell description that indicates that it affects the mind.

How do ppl play this at their table. Do they Stick to RAW, where you could argue that Command is possible, or are you all saying "the victim is forced to do something contrary to its will, therefore it must be mind altering, therefore Mind Blank works"?

Thank you!

 

[Lakesidefantasy]

I could probably be convinced that mind blank blocks command.

 

[Lyxen]

Mind Blank: "Until the spell ends, one willing creature you touch is immune to psychic damage, any effect that would sense its emotions or read its thoughts, divination spells, and the charmed condition. "

Command does nothing of the above. It therefore stand to reason that "The spell even foils wish spells and spells or effects of similar power used to affect the target's mind or to gain information about the target" refers to the specifics above.

Mind Blank is already powerful enough, but of course you can decide that it is a sort of "charm"...

 

[pogre]

I would rule in favor of having Mind Blank stop Command. It is an 8th level spell to stop a 1st level spell.

I can see arguments for the other side for sure.

 

[gelf]

Mind Blank: "Until the spell ends, one willing creature you touch is immune to psychic damage, any effect that would sense its emotions or read its thoughts, divination spells, and the charmed condition. "

Command does nothing of the above. It therefore stand to reason that "The spell even foils wish spells and spells or effects of similar power used to affect the target's mind or to gain information about the target" refers to the specifics above.

Mind Blank is already powerful enough, but of course you can decide that it is a sort of "charm"...

You're only quoting half the spell there! The rest of mind blank says: "The spell even foils wish spells and spells or effects of similar power used to affect the target's mind or to gain information about the target."

My feeling is that command affects the mind. It's an imposed action, the removal of free will, which is a classic mind-control power.

 

[Lyxen]

You're only quoting half the spell there!

Not at all, it was my full second paragraph.

The rest of mind blank says: "The spell even foils wish spells and spells or effects of similar power used to affect the target's mind or to gain information about the target."

My feeling is that command affects the mind. It's an imposed action, the removal of free will, which is a classic mind-control power.

It's your feeling, but it's not written anywhere that Command affects the mind. Blame 5e for not having clear tags on spells, but the "mind affecting" is tagged in 5e as the "charmed" condition that you for example have on suggestion, but not on command. If they wanted to put it in command, they would have listed that targets immune to charm like in suggestion: "Creatures that can't be charmed are immune to this effect"

 

[overgeeked]

That’s a bit rules lawyery. Using the RAW to defeat the RAI.

We have all we need to know Command effects the mind in the spell descriptions and the text of the book.

“Command 1st-level enchantment”

What kind of spell is an enchantment?

“Enchantment spells affect the minds of others, influencing or controlling their behavior. Such spells can make enemies see the caster as a friend, force creatures to take a course of action, or even control another creature l ike a puppet.”

So enchantment spells effect the target’s mind, not the spleen or liver. Got it.

What kinds of spells does Mind Blank protect against?

“Until the spell ends, one willing creature you touch is immune to psychic damage, any effect that would sense its emotions or read its thoughts, divination spells, and the charmed condition. The spell even foils wish spells and spells or effects of similar power used to affect the target's mind or to gain information about the target.”

So mind blank can stop even a wish spell from effecting the target’s mind. Command effects the target’s mind...so unless command is more powerful than a wish, mind blank prevents command.

 

[Lyxen]

“Until the spell ends, one willing creature you touch is immune to psychic damage, any effect that would sense its emotions or read its thoughts, divination spells, and the charmed condition. The spell even foils wish spells and spells or effects of similar power used to affect the target's mind or to gain information about the target.”

So mind blank can stop even a wish spell from effecting the target’s mind. Command effects the target’s mind...so unless command is more powerful than a wish, mind blank prevents command.

5e is more fuzzy than this. Again, does mind blank say that it protects against all enchantment ? No, because Mind Blank does not protect against Bane, which is also an enchantment. Do you think that Bane affects the mind ? I see no reason for it.

Other examples of enchantments: Hex, Hideous Laughter, Sleep, Hold Person... Does Mind Blank work against all of these because they are enchantment ? I really hope that your answer is going to be "No".

So I'm sorry, but your "RAI" is not proven to be the actual intent either.

Look, I'm not against it, I'm just pointing out that it's not clear cut one way or the other, that's all.

 

[overgeeked]

5e is more fuzzy than this. Again, does mind blank say that it protects against all enchantment ? No, because Mind Blank does not protect against Bane, which is also an enchantment. Do you think that Bane affects the mind ? I see no reason for it.

Other examples of enchantments: Hex, Hideous Laughter, Sleep, Hold Person... Does Mind Blank work against all of these because they are enchantment ? I really hope that your answer is going to be "No".

So I'm sorry, but your "RAI" is not proven to be the actual intent either.

Look, I'm not against it, I'm just pointing out that it's not clear cut one way or the other, that's all.

Chalk up another argument to the absurdity of natural language in game rules.

 

[gelf]

Not at all, it was my full second paragraph.

Derp! Reading fail on my part