Mind Blank vs Smite

[rushlight]

OK, here's an off-the-wall question:

Does a Mind Blank spell foil a paladin's Smite?

Reasons for:

1) Mind Blank foils all detection (like alignment), including Wish when used for that purpose.

2) If a creature can't be defined as "evil" then Smite won't work.

Reasons against:

1) A paladin doesn't need to know a creature's alignment in order to Smite it. It only needs to be "evil".

Question: Does the Smite ability detect the alignment of the target a moment before the effect goes off? Or does Smite work on some universal level that can never be foiled?

Please, help me out here! How would you call this one?

 

[Victim]

In our game, Smite worked against Mind Blanked foes. This makes sense - Smite doesn't care at all whether or the paladin knows the target is evil. Holy power just reacts badly when contacting an evil soul, and vice versa.

However, this can lead to the use of a Smite as form of alignment detection, or more likely confirmation, against Mind Blanked foes. Alignment abiguity is impossible even with spells of the highest order.

 

[the Jester]

It works, but that's a clever idea.

Remember, the paladin can smite evil even against someone who isn't evil- it simply has no extra effect. It still goes off, though.

Besides, if mind blank foils smite evil, it also foils protection from alignment, magic circle vs. alignment, unholy smite, order's wrath, holy weapons, etc. Which, I think you'll agree, is not the intent of the spell.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Basically, the Smite doesn't "detect" anything. It simply gives off a burst of energy that harms evil creatures. If the creature's not evil, it doesn't do anything to them. If they are, they're hurt by it.

It's like a Bane weapon. If you have an Undead Bane greatsword, and hit someone who isn't undead, it still gives off the burst of energy, it just doesn't affect them. Even if someone is under the influence of a spell or effect that makes them seem undead, but they don't have the undead type, it doesn't do anything to them- even if Detect spells would register him as undead.

So no detection is going on- the energy simply goes off, and if you're evil, it hurts you. If you aren't, it doesn't.

 

[Sejs]

Mind Blank would not stop Smite Evil from working, however the paladin would still need to choose to use his Smite, and the Mind Blank would make it so the person would not show up as evil on Paladin Radar.

So the paladin may not even realize the target is viable for smiting in the first place. Unless he just decides to go for it anyway and hope it turns out for the best. ^_^

 

[Falling Icicle]

You don't have to know a creature is evil to smite it. All Mind Blank does is prevent you from knowing that the creature is evil, it does not actually change the creature's alignment or classification in any way.

 

[rushlight]

It works, but that's a clever idea.

Remember, the paladin can smite evil even against someone who isn't evil- it simply has no extra effect. It still goes off, though.

Besides, if mind blank foils smite evil, it also foils protection from alignment, magic circle vs. alignment, unholy smite, order's wrath, holy weapons, etc. Which, I think you'll agree, is not the intent of the spell.

Hmm, let me ask this though:

Everyone seems to agree that Smite goes off against "evil" targets, but simply has no affect. So at some point, the Smite ability must ascertain whether the target is in fact "evil". Doesn't it stand to reason that if a target cannot be defined as "evil" (even with magic as strong as a Wish spell) then effects that work against "evil" won't go off?

Second, refering to those spells you mentioned. Would you agree that every offensive weapon in the game should have a defensive counter-balance, and vice versa? Are there any spells (besides negating magic altogether) that *would* be effective against those spells (as well as Smite)?

 

[shilsen]

Everyone seems to agree that Smite goes off against "evil" targets, but simply has no affect. So at some point, the Smite ability must ascertain whether the target is in fact "evil". Doesn't it stand to reason that if a target cannot be defined as "evil" (even with magic as strong as a Wish spell) then effects that work against "evil" won't go off?

Since the Smite ability does not have anything in the description about needing to detect whether the target is evil, adding that clause would be a house rule. As long as a spell does not actually change a creature's alignment from evil to something else, Smite will work on it. Maybe you can find a "logical" correlation (like the one you're trying to use above), but things in the D&D game don't have to "stand to reason", to use your phrase. If it did work the way your theory did, then presumably spells like misdirection

 

[shilsen]

Everyone seems to agree that Smite goes off against "evil" targets, but simply has no affect. So at some point, the Smite ability must ascertain whether the target is in fact "evil". Doesn't it stand to reason that if a target cannot be defined as "evil" (even with magic as strong as a Wish spell) then effects that work against "evil" won't go off?

Since the Smite ability does not have anything in the description about needing to detect whether the target is evil, adding that clause would be a house rule. As long as a spell does not actually change a creature's alignment from evil to something else, Smite will work on it.

Maybe you can find a "logical" correlation (like the one you're trying to use above), but things in the D&D game don't have to "stand to reason", to use your phrase. If it did work the way your theory did, then all kind of "logical" issues come up. Presumably spells like misdirection and others would also prevent Smite then. And Mind Blank would allow a creature protection from a whole host of other spells and items which have effects based on alignment.

 

[Darklone]

If you hit someone with a flaming weapon, it's the same in case he has elemental resistance. You hit him, your weapon is burning, but it's his problem whether it hurts him more or not. In the case of the paladin... it's the good old witch test. Burn her, if she's not burning, then she's a witch

I don't see the problem of abusing it. If you already hit someone, it's not a problem if you use smite evil and know afterwards if he was evil, you're pretty likely to kill him in many cases anyway