Minion Death Modification

[keterys]

Remove the existing minion rule, change to

'Minion Weakness
If a minion is hit for any damage, it dies. If a minion takes damage without being hit, it is not killed, but it becomes bloodied and dies the next time it takes any damage in any way.'

So, automatic damage (auras, ongoing, damage shields, etc) would bloody then kill minions, damage on miss abilities (like dailies, hammer rhythm, reaping strike, etc) would bloody then kill, etc.

 

[chronoplasm]

Ooh. I like that. It makes more sense that way.

 

[Nifft]

Interesting.

How would this interact with temporary hit points?

I ask because it reminds me of my own tri-state Minion house rule regarding temp HP:
- Alive with temp HP
- Alive with just 1 HP
- Dead

It seems like we could incorporate them into a more general state space:

• Alive:
  - Damage Threshold = 1/4 monster level +5 (or something similarly just barely higher than expected weapon / implement enhancement bonus)
  - If minion takes more damage than its damage threshold, goto DEAD
  - If minion takes less damage than its damage threshold, goto BLOODIED
• Bloodied:
  - If minion takes any damage, goto DEAD
• Dead:
  - Dead

Temporary HP would increase DT (and do nothing else -- minions would still be two-hits at most).

Cheers, -- N

 

[Azurecrusader]

I'm amazed that 99.9% of the suggested rules changes on these forums add additional layers of complexity, rather than streamlining.

Having said that, I like this idea in theory, but it means that I now have to write minions down on paper, something I don't have to do with the rules as they are. Is minion number 7 bloodied? hmm, it's been 4 turns, but I think so?

In regards to temporary hitpoints, I have started doing something a little different (not sure how it's really working out at this point). If minions are granted temporary hitpoints, I up their damage instead of actually letting them live longer. They are bolstered with newfound strength which comes in the form of damage instead of life. So far it has happened rarely enough that I haven't had to track it, but I can certainly see the same problem of having to write something down for a minion coming into play.

 

[Syrsuro]

I'm amazed that 99.9% of the suggested rules changes on these forums add additional layers of complexity, rather than streamlining.


Having said that, I like this idea in theory, but it means that I now have to write minions down on paper, something I don't have to do with the rules as they are. Is minion number 7 bloodied? hmm, it's been 4 turns, but I think so?

What complexity. Don't you use a visible marker on (or under) the miniature for bloodied? If so, you just drop a bloodied marker on the miniature and you are done. No recording on paper, just bloody it and go on. (And if you aren't using a visible marker for bloodied, I think its worth trying).

I've been doing this for awhile now and I think that bloodied minions are such an obvious idea that I don't know why they didn't make it the default rule. Any attack that misses and 'does damage' or any attack that does less than some threshold value (still in testing, but somewhere around 5+level at present) will bloody them rather than killing them. And any damage to an already bloodied minion kills it. This lets them stick around with almost no additional complexity and no hit point tracking, and yet still leaves them as mooks to be swept out of the way.

In regards to temporary hitpoints, I have started doing something a little different (not sure how it's really working out at this point). If minions are granted temporary hitpoints, I up their damage instead of actually letting them live longer. They are bolstered with newfound strength which comes in the form of damage instead of life. So far it has happened rarely enough that I haven't had to track it, but I can certainly see the same problem of having to write something down for a minion coming into play.

I haven't tried this, as none of my minions have had any temporary hit points yet. I'll give this some thought. But it seems like upping their defense a bit would make more sense, as it would improve their defense (which is what more hp represents) rather than upping their offense (which is what more damage would do). Maybe a +1 to all defenses if they have 'temporary hit points'.

Carl

 

[keterys]

As I wrote it, temporary hp would not help minions at all. And honestly, I'm okay with not having that level of complexity.

There are lots of ways you could track it without writing it down... and in truth a lot of minions will still just fall down quickly

 

[mykelsss]

Here's one: Randomly flip a coin whenever you feel like it when a minion is dealt damage. Heads = the minion lives, Tails = It dies. I've used this several times in my campaign; it keeps the PC's on their toes since they can't fight a certain type of minion and be like "Oh, all of those tokens are minions." I usually set a limit of 2 saves with the coin, and use it once for every 5-10 or so. If the players don't realize the mechanic behind it it's even better.

Of course adjust the XP gained a little.

 

[Nifft]

I'm amazed that 99.9% of the suggested rules changes on these forums add additional layers of complexity, rather than streamlining.

Then you haven't thought very hard about how minions interact with "normal" temporary HP. Both of the proposals in this thread are streamlined compared to that.

Cheers, -- N

 

[AumShantih]

This is a great idea! I like the idea of flipping a coin (or just using odds/even on that original d20 role) to determine if a minion is bloodied or not.
I like Minions, but I feel that 1HP solution is a little inelegant.

 

[Grinnen Baeritt]

I posted my suggestion here on another thread, but I tried it out the other night in a game, the players liked it so here goes..

We all agreed the void between the "standard" form of the monster and the "minion" is too great but liked the lack of record-keeping...so I reverted (in part) to an older system and now only use the standard template hp totals with leader-types. However, the standard template is now used for all the other stats apart from hp with minions.

Rather than minions only having 1 hp, they now have a random amount (based roughly on the old AD&D hp values) which is checked every time they are hit. If the damage caused exceeds the roll they die, else they become bloodied.
(and you mark it thus)
To make them initally tougher their level is added to the first die roll.

The Xp awarded is half the value normal for Standard monster templates converted to minions and normal for minion templates as is.

e.g.

A Goblin (Cutter: Minion template) hit in combat tests first with 1d6+1, then if it survives the first hit it tests further hits on 1d6 and is considered bloodied. Its other abilities remains the same (although I tend to roll for damage rather than use the set amount).

A Goblin (Skull Crusher: Brute template) hit in combat tests first with 1d6+3, then if it survives the first hit it tests further hits on 1d6 and is considered bloodied. Again it's standard template abilities remain the same. It is however now worth only 75xp.