Minions - do you tell players who are minions and who are not in-game?

[KarinsDad]

Since minions are a metagaming concept, then I see no problem informing players what are minions and what aren't.

...

If DMs hide their minion-ness, then expect this kind of behavior.

So since monster hit points, AC, Reflex Defense, Vulnerabilities, etc. are metagaming concepts, do you feel that the DM should just tell you everything about the monster? Should he even roll your to hit and damage dice for you? Tell you where all the traps are? Tell you the secret of all riddles and clues and also tell you what's going on in the campaign background that your PC wouldn't know, just so that you can enjoy the background effort he puts into the game?

Or, maybe you'd like him to bring you some cookies and milk as well as long as he is spoonfeeding you.

Just so that you aren't actually forced to make decisions without 100% 20/20 foresight. Yeah, as a player, I wouldn't want to actually ever be surprised or partially in the dark within a combat. That would never be any fun. What a boring way to play the game.

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

Minions are worthless little baloons easily popped and providing little to no challenge.

I find Minions to be a wonderful addition that keeps players on their toes for resource management, plus it helps build the idea that they're in for a tough fight. Typically, I don't get the "whoa, that was easy because half of the foes were minions" bit after the game - the players feel as if they're facing tough battles everytime because the game is now designed to pit players against multiple foes, instead of singular foes as 3E presented.

Then again, it's all about presentation. If you use Minions as "throw away" foes, then they're not going to be much of a match for players. But if you use them to their fullest extent (flanking, running, Aid Another for their allies, providing cover against ranged attackers in the party for their allies) then they become something else entirely alltogether - a true threat. I haven't had a single instance yet where players were underwhelmed by interlacing Minions amongst their foes.

 

[Omnifarious Grey]

If it's a foe type that the PCs haven't seen before, they don't know who is what. If it's a foe type they've fought before -- particularly a foe type they've fought recently in game time -- I flat out tell the players. The PCs will remember stuff that players might forget between sessions.

Cheers, -- N

This. I go off the idea of if they don't know what the enemy is or have never fought it before then they would not know how easy they fall. After they learn about the enemies then I don't mind letting them know.

Hey, these are adventurers, they should learn about the world first-hand and learn from the experiences.

 

[PHGraves]

I never tell the players and, to keep them guessing, tend to mix them in with similar non-minions where appropriate (zombies, orcs, gobbos, etc).

The first ever 4e combat for one of my groups was a group of four zombies and seven zombie rotters. The first round of combat, every zombie hit was a minion and the PCs suddenly lost all fear of the encounter. One of the paladins moved up to where he could easily be swarmed (he wanted to try out Valiant Strike). Hilarity ensued when he not only failed to instantly drop the zombie but was grabbed for his troubles and mauled by two minions and another zombie.

To this day, whenever there is a large group of enemies, those PCs tend to AoE the heck out of it first. Sure, this kills a ton of minions before they do damage, but it takes focus and resources away from the direction of the controllers/artillery.

 

[El Mahdi]

Before the fact? Never!

After the fact? Sometimes.

I run a houseruled 3.5E game, but I use the minion concept for some of my monsters/npc's. The first few times my players encountered them, and dropped a couple with only one hit, I responded to their Raised-Eyebrows-of-Confusion by telling them I was using minions. Which resulted in a collective "Ahhhh". Since then, it doesn't even phase them (other than the gleeful smile they get from occasionally wading through mooks and mowing them down like so many overgrown weeds). So far, the concept works really good with my style of gaming. I think they like the cinematic feel they provide, and the action keeps moving in combat instead of turning into a toe-to-toe slugfest.

 

[darkadelphia]

I don't tell them right off that x monster is a minion, but if the players figure it out, I don't dance around the term.

 

[TheLordWinter]

I am actually really surprised by how many people don't tell their players that they're facing minions. During one of the early test games of 4th edition my group was playing, I never told the PCs what was a minion and what wasn't. During a fight against several kobolds, the rogue used his Daily on a minion. When I informed him he needn't roll damage and it died in one hit, he looked crestfallen and said "Had I known that, I wouldn't have bothered."

After that reaction, I've been trying to let players know when something is a minion and when it isn't.

This same player now plays a Shadow Assassin, and we've ruled that while a player's missed attack won't kill a minion, the Shadow Assassin riposte still will if the minion misses him on an attack. He takes a certain delight from standing in a crowd of minions and watching them fall apart around him. I presume it's payback.

 

[jedrious]

I don't mention what is and isn't a minion mostly because I'm trying to teach some of my layers to hold back a little (you have no idea how many combats begin with "I run up, Villian's Menace, activate Boundless Endurance, Action Point for Crack the Shell" and then dice for the Villian's Menace are rolled, and yes by run I do mean Run action and with the inevitable missed attack rolls thanks to running, I smack him upside the head with the minion he just blew his wad on) so letting people know which are and aren't minins would be counterproductive

 

[ProdigalTim]

When we were running Shadowfell, my DM didn't tell us which monsters were minions directly, but we were able to figure it out easily enough through a combination of his descriptions and the minis that were used.

Personally, I don't care for the concept of minions, but I can understand how they could add a very badass action movie aspect to combat for some. I think it takes away from the fun of combat a little bit if people are having to hold back and play whack-a-mole until they figure out which is which - but I can see the argument that it adds additional tactical considerations which may be fun for some.

All said, I would find it difficult to do away with them, however, were I DMing, as I think there are a fair number of powers and the like that are engineered to, or are at least primarily effective at, demolishing large numbers of em rapidly.

Has anyone done away with minions in their campaigns? How did it work out? Were wizards or other classes with AoEs affected?

 

[Infiniti2000]

I voted for 'yes' although I'm not 100% blatant about. Like keterys said, I want the minions used for their purpose: cannon fodder. Another important point is for those who dislike aspects of daily and even encounter powers, that it sucks when the PC misses. If you (or the player) thinks it sucks when they miss, IME it sucks even more when the effect was targeted on a minion, whether or not it hit, unless said minion was the luckiest minion in the world and was doing great harm.

If I had a special encounter where the minions were supposed to "blend in", perhaps to mask the BBEG or something, then obviously I wouldn't say anything. But, for the most part the PCs know and it's rather silly to try not to say the word minion. It'd be like trying to describe a blue vase without using the word blue, because that word would somehow give it away. C'mon, D&D players are far too intelligent not to get it, so don't bother insulting their intelligence by trying to hide the word.