Minions - tell the PCs?

[Kzach]

I generally don't make it obvious until the first minion is hit. From then on there's no point hiding it.

However, I'm also a devious bastard. I got a bit tired of the whole, "Ok, these miniatures all look the same and are minions, wizard..." thing. So I used the same miniatures for minions and standard monsters and made the stats and abilities basically the same.

Man, you should've seen the reaction from one player in particular. It was golden. "OMG! That guy just hit me for 15 damage and there are eight of them!" "What? It's just a minion? A level-appropriate minion can't do that much damage!" "Huh? Wtf? Why didn't they all die with that area effect attack?"

Good times.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I, for one, would take no such pleasure in 'tricking' the players, much like I wouldn't take pleasure from throwing in an equally 'standard' 30th level monster. I can't imagine the logic that would dictate that two totally and fundamentally mechanically different creatures would not somehow be noticeable by other characters. Minions are nothing more than a mechanic, so I don't think it's conducive to a fun game to use such an odd mechanic in a way that could create such massive frustration (wasting a daily). I also don't personally think that perception rolls are useful. They are more rolls and thus add more complexity (gotta look up DCs based on party level and/or monster level, etc.).

 

[Regicide]

Never!
In fact, I'm not sure why you would even consider telling the PCs that they're facing minions...(I also don't tell them they're facing brutes, skirmishers, controllers etc.)
I use the same mix of minis for minions that I use for regular monsters. I even roll "damage" dice when the minions hit to keep the illusion of non-minion status alive. Don't you think it's easy enough for them to figure it out during the normal course of the battle?
Later!
Gruns

It's perfectly fine if the players are expected to win every encounter you throw at them to not tell them there are minions since... well it doesn't really matter, they're going to win no matter what they fight.

Some DMs though you don't want every encounter to be winnable by the players whipping out their sword and hacking the heck out of everything, so that pack of 20 giants really IS a pack of 20 giants and not 2 giants and 18 pieces of free XP.

 

[Ktulu]

I don't "tell" them, but I do tend to use similar minis and call out the BBEG's. For instance, in my current game, every time I use minions, I pull out the DDM man-at-arms for minion humans. I call them out as guards or whatever, but the players consciously know "minion". No one ever says that word, but they all know that the crazy fighter with the greatsword is the leader and he's the worst threat.

Hasn't been a problem, yet (it does help that I've got a ridiculous stock of minis).

 

[NilesB]

Can anyone think of a situation in the source material where reasonably competent protagonists couldn't tell which of the foes before them were the more dangerous and plot important, unless some intentional disguise or trickery was involved?

I can't

The PCs are assumed in D&D to be capable combatants, definitionaly they have some ability to judge the ability and fighting spirit of their foes. moreover, the characters are there, unlike their players they do not have to rely on a short verbal summary of what their senses tell them.


Concealing which foes are minions from the players is usually metagaming.

 

[Regicide]

Can anyone think of a situation in the source material where reasonably competent protagonists couldn't tell which of the foes before them were the more dangerous and plot important, unless some intentional disguise or trickery was involved?

Pretty much always. Can you tell a professional boxer from a construction worker? Doubt it, at least not until the fight is practically over. If you get in a fight though the boxer is gonig to WRECK you. 3E you could use sense motive to determine an opponent's level. Don't think there is the same in 4E.

 

[Jools]

I let the players know, but only if they have a good score in the relevant dungeoneering, nature etc.

 

[NilesB]

Pretty much always.

Name one.

Can you tell a professional boxer from a construction worker? Doubt it, at least not until the fight is practically over.

I probably could and a competent martial artist definitely could the moment he put up his dukes and stepped towards me.

 

[Regicide]

I probably could

Well you're very very exceptional then. Few other people have the ability to read minds and tell what is in a person's muscle memory by looking at them.

Until Bruce Lee has taken down half a dozen minions he looks hardly more impressive than any of the guys who have shirts on.

 

[darkwing]

Yeah, I usually say something like "these goblins here look big and strong and these goblins over here look smaller and weaker". Sometimes the smaller weaker ones aren't really minions though... sometimes they're just normal while the big ones are brutes.

Generally speaking, I won't trick players into wasting a single target daily on a minion because that's just not fun. But, and I haven't tried it yet, I could envision a BBEG that was cunning enough to make all his minions look like himself and use that as part of his tactics. The players might (or might not) know he's doing this, but wouldn't necessarily be able to tell which particular enemy was which. This is a special case though. In general, I feel it's more fair if the players have some clue what's going on.