Minis and Grids, do you use them?

[Shemeska]

I'll admit some surprise here about mini use and the numbers on the poll. Obviously from my comments on the other thread that spawned this one, I don't use minis or a grid, though if it's a complex fight at player request I'll draw a map.

But none of the groups I've ever played with have regularly used minis or grids. My first group ever (DnD 3e), playing under the worlds least imaginative DM, didn't use either. My second group playing under the worlds most imaginative DM (DnD 3e, and Shadowrun) never once used them at all. The two other groups I played in I think used minis in two encounters the entire time I played with them, and my own campaign has maybe used coins and cheetos as counters on a hand drawn map a dozen times in three years. [Admittedly, one fight in the Quasielemental Plane of Steam involving about 40 NPCs in a 3d space needed representation, but that's an extreme example I think].

I'd be curious to see the breakdown too in the poll numbers about with who voted for which poll choice, what edition of DnD you first started playing in. A number of responses for 'always use minis' seem to approach it from a wargaming perspective, and I have to wonder if it's something related to starting the game in 1e, but it's not something I can really tell.

 

[Faraer]

It's probably those most attached to 3E who're most likely to use miniatures; the AD&D rules aren't so suited to them as with minute-long rounds characters' exact position is assumed to vary during each round, and the movement rules aren't so fiddly-precise. Gary Gygax himself rarely used or uses miniatures.

 

[Quasqueton]

I'd be curious to see the breakdown too in the poll numbers about with who voted for which poll choice, what edition of DnD you first started playing in. A number of responses for 'always use minis' seem to approach it from a wargaming perspective, and I have to wonder if it's something related to starting the game in 1e, but it's not something I can really tell.

From what I've seen in all these threads that I've read over the years, it seems:

Started : probability of using minis

AD&D1: more likely
BD&D: even likelihood
AD&D2: less likely
D&D3: more likely

the AD&D rules aren't so suited to them as with minute-long rounds characters' exact position is assumed to vary during each round, and the movement rules aren't so fiddly-precise. Gary Gygax himself rarely used or uses miniatures.

This is complete bull. AD&D1 was based on using minis. Movement and range was given in inches (1" = 10' indoors, 1" = 30' outdoors). The rules covered facing (dispite one-minute rounds). The rules mentioned and suggested using minis, and TSR produced a series of minis for use in AD&D. (Dave Arneson even endorsed Grenadier minis.)

Quasqueton

 

[Agamon]

They do sell Tact-Tiles to Canada, as well as many other countries as indicated on their website "Contact Us" page. And from what I understand from some of the message traffic in the past, they have at least one FLGS in Canada. You may want to email them and ask.

Really, I didn't realize that, thanks.

 

[haiiro]

For D&D, always. (I use counters rather than minis, though.) I don't feel that having a grid necessarily runs counter to creativity, and I've seen too many combats turn into unplayable messes without one.

 

[Faraer]

This is complete bull. AD&D1 was based on using minis. Movement and range was given in inches (1" = 10' indoors, 1" = 30' outdoors). The rules covered facing (dispite one-minute rounds). The rules mentioned and suggested using minis, and TSR produced a series of minis for use in AD&D. (Dave Arneson even endorsed Grenadier minis.)

AD&D came out of miniatures wargames, but the fact is that the Lake Geneva campaign didn't much use them, and the rules don't assume their use, whereas 3E does. Rear and flank attacks don't require miniatures, just the DM having an idea of who's facing whom. I dare say that their recommendation early in the DMG -- mainly to show marching order, only secondarily to actually play out movement and fights -- was more due to TSR's miniatures line than the other way round.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

AD&D came out of miniatures wargames, but the fact is that the Lake Geneva campaign didn't much use them, and the rules don't assume their use, whereas 3E does. Rear and flank attacks don't require miniatures, just the DM having an idea of who's facing whom. I dare say that their recommendation early in the DMG -- mainly to show marching order, only secondarily to actually play out movement and fights -- was more due to TSR's miniatures line than the other way round.

Well I came to AD&D from seeing miniatures in a bookstore. AD&D (and there is only one AD&D the other one is 2nd Edition AD&D) seemed, to me, to support the use of minis. Graph paper maps, 1" scale movement, mentioned a few times in the DMG and PHB. 3E may be more forward about it but it's hardly a 'new' thing for minis to be so linked to (A)D&D.

 

[Jeremy E Grenemyer]

It's probably those most attached to 3E who're most likely to use miniatures;

Oh I doubt that.

I mean, If you take this statement by itself it's probably right.

But within the context of this community (more precisely, those participating in this poll), I don't think that's the case.

..the AD&D rules aren't so suited to them as with minute-long rounds characters' exact position is assumed to vary during each round, and the movement rules aren't so fiddly-precise. Gary Gygax himself rarely used or uses miniatures.

Not that game rules need to be fiddly-precise before one can properly use miniatures.

The AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide devotes about a half a page (sections of pages 10 and 11, for those who have the book) to the use of miniatures in the game. It extols the benefits of using minis to help with such things as recognizing your character and visualizing their position relative to henchmen, other PCs and monsters, understanding the reason a DM might limit what a character can and can’t do, figuring out marching order, recognizing how large some monsters are relative to characters, etc…

The DMG does try to sell minis, as well as a "future" product called Dungeon Floorplans to the DM.

For all the vagaries and assumptions build into AD&D, the use of miniatures is hardly limited by such. Shoot, the DMG practically admits that the way the game's set up can leave a lot of players scratching their heads, wondering exactly what’s going on.

In my gaming experience, the use of miniatures has almost always been the next practical step to streamline play and keep things fun and enjoyable.

Maybe some have hit on the bright idea that the pewter (and lead, you never know) in minis keeps mini-users from using their imaginations…that’d explain the subtle disdain for mini-users, at the very least.

J. Grenemyer

 

[Jackelope King]

I started with 2E and have used minis ever since.

 

[ARandomGod]

Gary Gygax himself rarely used or uses miniatures.

But, you know, Gary didn't play 3.X

(Edit: Of course, he might now... I'm asserting that your 'rarely used or uses' was from the majority of his life, which of necessity wasn't in 3.X Of course, I personally think that it's likely that if he DOES play 3.X he playes a heavily house-ruled version that's closer to Dungeons and Dragons than it is to d20)

He played Dungeons and Dragons, and Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, then 2nd edition perhaps.... Those games weren't designed AS miniatures games, the rules didn't have that in mind. 3.X, which bought the game from TSR, took the game name and basic concept, and made up a new miniatures game.

Those are completely different issues. Someone playing one of the formes of Dungeons and Dragons is less likely to use a map and miniatures... and there are a number of other RPG's that aren't build around the maps and mini's concept. But people playing d20 3.X D&D are more likely to play with maps and mini's (and I think most d20 games in general)... if they aren't they will by necessity be heavily houseruled in order to make the game work.

Now this wasn't a completely new concept. Dungeons and Dragons had been moving towards miniatures use for a while, and even supported it in the basic edition. But by 3.X it was basically assumed.