Minis VS. Star Wars D20

[drothgery]

i.e. For my all Jedi game here on ENWorld, the only thing that's really brought them all down to WP damage after a whole bunch of encounters with war droids is a group of Sith Apprentices and an actual Sith. But they ended up taking out 10 more War Droids after that encounter while taking maybe one hit.

It seems like mooks (anyone without VP or under 3rd level, pretty much) just really can't fight level 6+ Jedi short of using area effect weapons, cheesy stun tactics, or hoping for critical hits.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

...and so on. And watch that fight in the detention block again: there's a surprise round in which Chewie cold-konks one guy, Han blasts another, and Luke takes out a third. Then there's the actual first round of combat, where the three heroes are behind the cover of the control panel blasting the few remaining troops and starting on the cameras. Finally, when the reinforcements show up, Han and Chewie beat it down the hall, dig in for cover (to use your words), and start trading shots back and forth with stormtroopers (who, for whatever reason known only to Imperial training officers, DON'T get behind cover).

My impression has always been that the heroes in SW tended to fight fairly smart, and would only jump out into a hail of blaster fire when they were desperate or overwhelmed with emotion. (Look at the "Oh gawd what am I gonna do now?" look at Han's face before he turns the Millenium Falcon to 'attack' the Star Destroyer.) A few times, they just flat out make mistakes (such as Han's totally blown "Move Silently" check when sneaking up on the biker scout).

And if you play like that, the RPG works pretty well.

-The Gneech

Exactly! The tactics ARE there in the movies. All over the place, in fact. You don't take notice of them because they're simple intelligent things to do.

Being shot at? Take cover so you can't be hit! Etc.

It just seems like its different in d20 because you're pointing out the fact that you're taking cover instead of just seeing it done. Characters STILL have the witty banter, insanely stupid moves, etc, that you see in the movies...but then again, if that's ALL you want, why play the game? If you want your players to be invincible and immune to even taking a hit...why are you playing an RPG?

Why not just write a story? The very nature of playing an RPG seems to be the 'problem' rather than the way the rules emulate the universe.

 

[kenobi65]

Yeah, and how often did they get injured by them? Was one in every 20 shots a life-threatening injury?

Jeff, I think either (a) your experiences with SWd20 are atypical, or (b) you're exaggerating.

In SWd20, that one-in-20 shots you talk about is a threat of actually being hit by the weapon, instead of just suffering a near miss. And, actually getting hit by a blaster rifle, or a lightsaber, should be a potentially life-threatening injury.

You gotta keep in mind that "hits" that only do VP damage aren't technically "hits" at all...they're near-misses, that tire out the hero as he gets out of the way.

And, even if the mook stormtrooper rolls a natural 20, he *still* needs to roll to confirm the crit, otherwise it's still only a VP hit (unless the hero's run out of VPs). That mook stormtrooper might have a +4 or +5 to his attack roll; a mid-level Jedi or Soldier should have a Defense score in the low 20s (even higher if the Jedi's using Deflect), so confirming that crit is going to be unlikely (possible, but unlikely).

I've been playing SWd20 for 4+ years, and have played over 60 Living Force adventures. In that time, my character (now a Scoundrel 10 / Soldier 1) has suffered WP damage no more than ten times. In other words: in 60+ adventures, he's actually been shot no more than 10 times. He's been critted 4 times, been knocked to negative WPs twice.

 

[Psion]

A "war"? I suspect you have a lot more invested than I do.

If I did, I wouldn't openly mock it as an edition war.

Nor would I be editing my post now to avoid getting into the all to typical drag out. Suffice it to say that your projected image of deadly and overly tactical play in SW does not pan out in play IME.

 

[Aristotle]

Why choose? Minis and role playing go hand in hand. I don't play the mini games, but I use them for role playing. So I guess my vote goes for the role playing game by default.

But I invest into at least 2 cases of each D&D mini expansion, and considered doing the same for the SW minis. What stopped me? The RPG isn't doing well, or doesn't appear to be well supported. I have no use for the minis if I don't have the game to use them with. That's like $600+ a year in mini sales alone that was lost due to nonsupport, or a perceived lack of support, of the role playing game. I have to wonder how many other potential buyers opted out for similar reasons.

 

[Kanegrundar]

Why choose? Minis and role playing go hand in hand. I don't play the mini games, but I use them for role playing. So I guess my vote goes for the role playing game by default.

But I invest into at least 2 cases of each D&D mini expansion, and considered doing the same for the SW minis. What stopped me? The RPG isn't doing well, or doesn't appear to be well supported. I have no use for the minis if I don't have the game to use them with. That's like $600+ a year in mini sales alone that was lost due to nonsupport, or a perceived lack of support, of the role playing game. I have to wonder how many other potential buyers opted out for similar reasons.

So you won't play a game if it isn't actively supported? That's your perogative, but AFAIAC my books are just as good now as they were when the game was supported.

Buy the figs and enjoy your SW game.

Kane

 

[Aristotle]

I'm not saying the game isn't valid or that those people playing it aren't fully enjoying a good game. I'm just saying that I decided not to invest what works out to be a huge portion of my gaming dollars on a game that doesn't appear to be as well supported as I would prefer. I'll play the game with the books I have, but if the future of the game seems less than sure... I think I'll reserve the cash for something a little more heavily supported.

 

[Nifft]

I like both... but I voted for SWd20, because I think Minis are profitable enough to stand without my support.

-- N

 

[bolen]

does it matter, I don't see any new books for sw d20 for this year. I think wizards has clearly taken a position on this poll. I dont understand why (from a marketing standpoint) they dont have a new book out this month?

 

[kenobi65]

I dont understand why (from a marketing standpoint) they dont have a new book out this month?

And that, my friend, is the $64 question.

The RPG line's on hold, but it'd sure seem that, if they were looking for an ideal opportunity for relaunching it, this'd be it. So, clearly, there's some other factor in their thinking.

Difficult to see, the future is.