D&D 5E Minor rant - y'ever just hate your players' characters?

[MarkB]

I said I wanted to run a quirky, Ghostbusters-style light-hearted fantasy adventure using the new 5e rules. I told them combat is going by 'comic book' rules - all enemies are KO'd instead of dead when they hit zero HP. I encouraged them to try a few different things and they were free to edit their characters as they saw fit until level 3, whereupon their concepts would be 'locked in'.

What I got:

- Drow Fighter with the Charlatan background whose family lost a House war and now wants to create a new empire on the surface with any and everyone who will follow him... especially Humanoids.
- (After changing ideas four times in three days) a Half-Orc priest of War [Hermit] who wants to become a necromancer and give the dead a second chance to battle.
- Halfling Sorcerer [Sage] who is terrified of everything and runs from every fight until pushed, then lays down the hurt with a power he has yet to understand.

They're all heavily combat-oriented and they don't want to die, which is nice, but when they can all do silly amounts of damage a turn... Fighter has 20 Dex and is two-weaponing Rapier and dagger (RAW he can't, but I allowed it). Half-Orc has 18 Str and is using a Greatsword; she also has the power to add additional attacks with her Domain power. And the Halfling has all-damage all the time, which is par for sorcerers anyhow.

In short, they made characters who are all social pariahs and they want to Kingmaker.

I'm not seeing the disconnect here. You wanted quirky, and they sound quirky. "Social pariahs" sounds pretty spot-on for a Ghostbusters-style team. And having big goals way out of sync with your character's actual capabilities is a great way to build a comical character.

I guess... I guess I just miss the days when people made characters and you just enjoyed PLAYING them without worrying about DPS or "we're too weak, we need level three! We wanna be heroes!"

It makes me not want to DM at all.

What exactly were you hitting them with? If my DM had told me that he was planning a fun, light-hearted, comic-book style campaign, and then I spent my first two levels feeling like my character was about to die in every single encounter, I can tell you that I'd be feeling one heck of a sense of disconnect.

 

[Joe Liker]

If the characters are all super-optimized for combat, I'm willing to bet they have some huge deficiencies in the social and exploration portions of the game.

Before they get to level 3, exploit the heck outta those weaknesses, and they might just rethink their definition of "powerful."

That all three are self-described pariahs makes me think even finding adventures is going to be rough for them -- what villager is going to want to ask for help from any drow, much less an unapologetic megalomanic?

 

[Crothian]

In short, they made characters who are all social pariahs and they want to Kingmaker.

I would love this. These two things don't go together and if that's what the party is then embrace it. Forming a Kingdom is hard under the best of circumstances but from social pariahs it is nearly impossible. I think that would be fun to run.

 

[Herobizkit]

What exactly were you hitting them with? If my DM had told me that he was planning a fun, light-hearted, comic-book style campaign, and then I spent my first two levels feeling like my character was about to die in every single encounter, I can tell you that I'd be feeling one heck of a sense of disconnect.

Well, I'm running an up-conversion of The Sunless Citadel. I think the very fact that I'm using a pre-gen has them on edge because they've had nothing but bad experiences with pre-gens (which were run incorrectly by a novice DM).

I eased them into combat with a tacked-on non-lethal bar brawl which got changed up into a wild boar fight. The boar was CR 2 acc'd to the 3.x description, but the TWF Drow took it out almost single-handedly in three rounds.

In the dungeon itself, I changed up some dire rats for "carnivorous grey squirrels", a nod to a joke the NPC talked about last game. Then they met a pair of goblins who had tactical advantage but they blew past it and killed them both in one combat round.

The boar was the strongest and most dangerous thing they've fought so far.

Also in said adventure, they are working with kobolds to try and retrieve the kobolds' 'sacred animal' from goblin invaders, and the Drow already has plans to either absorb the kobolds into his township plans or take over as their leader. I am actually fine with this and expected no less. :3

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm feeling ya, @Herobizkit.

For my last Savage Worlds fantasy campaign, I had a great background set up with intrigue, warring factions, rival crime syndicates, lost history and lost civilizations . . . .

And one of the main players comes to me and says, "I basically want to play the character 'The Tick' from the cartoon."

Like, not just a fighter who's not all that bright, and mostly focuses on muscle and "bringin' the pain!" . . . but he actually wanted the character's personality to BE the cartoon character's personality.

I did that in a playtest for GURPS: Vampire the Masquerade. However, I didn't play him as a Tick clone, but rather, as a Tick-like character who also was thoroughly tied to the city in which the campaign was set, and with a flavor & vibe that hewed more closely to a typical Vampire game than the character that inspired his creation.

IOW, as weird as the PC was, I still took pains to make him fit..somehow.

Herobizkit, I think the others are right in that social misfits who want to rule the world are serious PCs...with with serious flaws in their expectations. In a sense, they're like a bunch of Goths who have dreams of being the homecoming court of their big, American inner city HS. Sort of like Blackadder.

As such, they should probably encounter all kinds of practical social barriers, despite combat successes. No matter how they succeed on the battlefield, nobody will take them seriously.

...at least, not until there is clearly no other choice but to do exactly that.

Which IS the Ghostbusters narrative. (Also, Who's the Man?, another good comedy.)







* for those who know the game, Major Mosquito was a Brujah who was also crazier than a Malkavian. And he was a vampire-hunter of sorts as well...

 

[wedgeski]

"Ghostbusters-style fun" says to me geeky elven librarians, dour wizards forced into the family necromancy business, and madcap gnome inventors with city-destroying backpacks...

 

[pickin_grinnin]

I have found that it's a good idea to set player expectations before a campaign. In fact, I usually do so before they have even agreed to be players in the game.

I give them a good rundown of my GM/DM style, what I reward, what the world is like, what to expect in terms of general danger level, etc. That way they don't get invested in a game if our styles aren't going to be a good match.

I tell them that I'm not at all concerned with "balance" between characters, not everybody gets the same experience points (that depends on how much effort they put into roleplaying), there is no set expected "wealth" according to character levels, etc. The campaigns do not resemble video games or MMOs in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Imagine a Drow in the situation towards the movie's climax...

Pimbin Wentrin "What did you DO, D'reyy?"

D'reyy Stabnz: "I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us. Mr. Jolly Funnel-weaver!"

Pimbin Wentrin: "Nice thinkin', D'reyy."

 

[innerdude]

Imagine a Drow in the situation towards the movie's climax...

Pimbin Wentrin "What did you DO, D'reyy?"

D'reyy Stabnz: "I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us. Mr. Jolly Funnel-weaver!"

Pimbin Wentrin: "Nice thinkin', D'reyy."

BWHAHAHAAH.

Literally lol'd.

Somebody XP Mr. Alcatraz for me.

 

[WayneLigon]

Yep. I've literally sat down, explained the campaign structure, then had people fixate on character ideas so antithetical to that structure that I've abandoned running it before the first pencil hit paper.