Mirror Image and Magic Missile

[Hatchling Dragon]

It gets destroyed - it is not the carrier of the brooch, it is an illusionary image. If the carrier of the brooch also gets a missile, he gets no damage from that single missile.

Does it not say in the description of Mirror Image that the images act in all ways like the original would? Thus wouldn't they seem to ignore the spell because the original wouldn't be affected? Thus my confusion.

Hatchling Dragon

 

[Dash Dannigan]

I'm afraid not. They are just images of the caster, targetable but in efect have nothing else to do with the caster besides mimicing his movements. This spell does not mimic any other aspect of the caster. Missles would hit the image negating it, when one hit the caster then yes, effects on the caster would negate the missle if these conditions existed.

Hyper: Why the big concern for this spell? Afterall there are many examples of other lower level spells negating certain effects of higer level spells. Just look at Daylight negating deeper darkness in it's radius of effect.

To all: Mirror Image is an excellent spell and magic missle is an excellent counter, what's wrong with this?

 

[Mithriltooth]

To all: Mirror Image is an excellent spell and magic missle is an excellent counter, what's wrong with this?

Agreed with wholeheartedly

 

[Hypersmurf]

Why the big concern for this spell? Afterall there are many examples of other lower level spells negating certain effects of higer level spells. Just look at Daylight negating deeper darkness in it's radius of effect.

That's actually not my major concern. I don't like spells targetting illusions as creatures.

Mirror Image is an excellent spell and magic missle is an excellent counter.

Not as excellent a counter as Message. Destroy one image per level, no cap.

-Hyp.

 

[Darklone]

Not as excellent a counter as Message. Destroy one image per level, no cap.

-Hyp.

Sorry, Hyp, how would Message destroy Mirror images?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Sorry, Hyp, how would Message destroy Mirror images?

From the FAQ:

If I get hit by a fireball spell while I’m using a mirror
image spell, do all my images disappear? The spell as
written in the book seems to imply that they survive but it
would seem to me that any area effect damage should wipe
them all out.

Area spells don’t destroy the figments created by the mirror
image spell, but targeted spells do. To determine if a spell is
“targeted,” look at the information that proceeds each spell
description. If there is a Target or Targets entry, the spell is
targeted. A spell also is “targeted” if it has an Effect entry and
the effect is a ray or something else that requires a melee or
ranged attack to strike a foe, such as the missile created by the
Melf’s acid arrow spell or the beam of fire from a flame blade
spell.

-Hyp.

 

[Berk]

ooo, and don't forget being blind, naturally blind at that. Something non magical is trumping something magical. Course there are other problems but still, being blind negates the benefits of mirror image. =op

 

[IceBear]

From the FAQ:

If I get hit by a fireball spell while I’m using a mirror
image spell, do all my images disappear? The spell as
written in the book seems to imply that they survive but it
would seem to me that any area effect damage should wipe
them all out.

Area spells don’t destroy the figments created by the mirror
image spell, but targeted spells do. To determine if a spell is
“targeted,” look at the information that proceeds each spell
description. If there is a Target or Targets entry, the spell is
targeted. A spell also is “targeted” if it has an Effect entry and
the effect is a ray or something else that requires a melee or
ranged attack to strike a foe, such as the missile created by the
Melf’s acid arrow spell or the beam of fire from a flame blade
spell.

-Hyp.

I know what Hypersmurf is saying is technically true, but I guess I just have it ingrained in me that magic missles destroy mirror images, so I allow targetted spells that cause damage to destroy mirror images.

IceBear

 

[apsuman]

Just to stir the pot...

From the SRD:

Magic Missle:
A missile of magical energy darts forth from the character's fingertip and unerringly strikes its target. The missile deals 1d4+1 points of damage.

The missile strikes unerringly, even if the target is in melee or has anything less than total cover or concealment. Specific parts of a creature cannot be singled out. Inanimate objects (locks, etc.) cannot be damaged by the spell.

[other stuff deleted]


And, Mirror Image:

Several illusory duplicates of the character pop into being, making it difficult for enemies to know which target to attack. The figments stay near the character and disappear when struck.

Mirror image creates 1d4 images plus one image per three caster levels (maximum eight images). These figments separate from the character and remain in a cluster, each within 5 feet of at least one other figment or the character. The character can move into and through a mirror image. When the character and the mirror image separate, observers can’t use vision or hearing to tell which one is the character and which the image. The figments may also move through each other. The figments mimic the character's actions, pretending to cast spells when the character casts a spell, drink potions when the character drinks a potion, levitate when the character levitates, and so on.

Enemies attempting to attack the character or cast spells at the character must select from among indistinguishable targets. Generally, roll randomly to see whether the selected target is real or a figment. Any successful attack roll against a figment destroys it. A figment’s AC is 10 + size modifier + Dexterity modifier. Figments seem to react normally to area spells (such as looking like they’re burned or dead after being struck by a fireball).

While moving, the character can merge with and split off from figments so that enemies who have learned which image is real are again confounded.


A few thoughts, first, the SRD does not make any special note of Move vs. moving. But more importantly (to me) is that the Magic Missle strikes unerringly, emphasis mine.

I contend that as written, the design intent was to have a Magic Missle either (A) always hit the intended target, or (B) destoy a single image as being hit by MM should count as being struck.


g!

 

[Hypersmurf]

I contend that as written, the design intent was to have a Magic Missle either (A) always hit the intended target, or (B) destoy a single image as being hit by MM should count as being struck.

The rules for targetted spells point out that you can't ask the spell to choose a target based on information you do not possess. From memory, the example is trying to target "the leader" of a group, when you don't know which one the leader is.

That's why I wouldn't let Magic Missile automatically hit the real caster.

The relevant line from the PHB for the other point is :
Any successful attack roll against a figment destroys it.

Magic Missile doesn't use an attack roll. Regardless of "unerringly striking", it doesn't fulfil the PHB requirements for destroying an image. In similar fashion, Magic Missile cannot cause a critical or sneak attack damage. It fails the definition of a "weapon-like spell": one requiring an attack roll.

The FAQ adds information that is not in the Core Rules description of Mirror Image - that any targetted spell will destroy a figment. Like Magic Missile, or, say, Message.

-Hyp.