Mirror Image and Magic Missile

[apsuman]

To me the relevant passage was :
The figments stay near the character and disappear when struck.


And being hit by a MM would qualify, attack roll or no.


g!

 

[Hypersmurf]

To me the relevant passage was :
The figments stay near the character and disappear when struck.

And being hit by a MM would qualify, attack roll or no.

And yet, being "pounded by great hailstones" from an Ice Storm does not... do you not consider that this counts as "being struck"? It doesn't cause figments to disappear, though...

-Hyp.

 

[IceBear]

I know that the rules don't back me up on this, but I just look at it as being an illusion being disbelieved. You hit it with a magic missle (or your spell fails to go off because you were targetting a figment) so poof, the figment is lost. Hit it with an area effect spell and you can't tell if the image that appears battered by the icestorm is a figment or the real guy. The only problem with that is the message spell example, and thus my house rule - it must be a targettable spell that causes damage.

Illusions are wacky. I like allowing someone to target an illusion with a spell like charm person and not telling them that it failed to go off (as per the rules) but rather that it didn't appear to have any effect. This makes it too easy to determine illiusions in my mind. I'd rather that because you believed that the illusion was real, you summoned the magic and when nothing happens you can't tell whether or not they resisted it or because it was an illusion. I know, not per the rules. Hopefully they'll clear this up some in 3.5

IceBear

 

[Dash Dannigan]

Let me start off by saying I agree with Hyper and his reading of these rules are correct. But first from the MI spell desciption:

Enemies attempting to attack the character or CAST SPELLS at the character must select from among indistinguishable targets.

This clearly states in the Mirror Image spell how Magic Missle interacts with the spell. MM targets a real creature (the character) but the MI spell interferes with this causing the spell to strike images instead. This is both clear and concise.

The rules for targetted spells point out that you can't ask the spell to choose a target based on information you do not possess. From memory, the example is trying to target "the leader" of a group, when you don't know which one the leader is.

That's why I wouldn't let Magic Missile automatically hit the real caster.

Again I agree. The Magic Missle cannot directly strike the target character and ignore the images. On top of this the caster of MM cannot target the images themselves. I agree with you Hyper now that I've looked at the spell descriptions, Magic Missle CANNOT target these images. It can only target the character that is under the effect of the Mirror Image spell. This results in each missle randomly striking either target character or image, with the potential for multiple missle striking the same image. But this also means that a caster cannot "counter" the mirror image spell because they cannot specifically target the images. They simply target the character and then determine where the missles strike.

The relevant line from the PHB for the other point is :
Any successful attack roll against a figment destroys it.

Magic Missile doesn't use an attack roll. Regardless of "unerringly striking", it doesn't fulfil the PHB requirements for destroying an image. In similar fashion, Magic Missile cannot cause a critical or sneak attack damage. It fails the definition of a "weapon-like spell": one requiring an attack roll.

The FAQ adds information that is not in the Core Rules description of Mirror Image - that any targetted spell will destroy a figment. Like Magic Missile, or, say, Message.

-Hyp.

I also have to agree here as well. According to the spell description an Image cannot be destroyed unless it is struck by an attack roll. Thankfully, the FAQ clarifies this however when it discusses spells. So a Magic Missle because it is a "target" spell can destroy an Image when it is struck.

In summary, a MM targets the character and the MI deviates the missle to randomly strike among the character and their images. When an image is struck by MM it is destroyed. As the missles strike simultaneously multiple missle may strike the same image, destroying it.

Now as to Message, since images cannot be targeted, the spell targets the character effected by MI and then randomly determines if it targets the character or an image. If an image is targeted then it too winks out, but only one as there is only a single target being effected by the message spell.

 

[IceBear]

There can be more than one target to a Message spell.

IceBear

 

[Murrdox]

In my opinion, reading the spell...

I would rule that you CAN split up a magic missle to affect multiple images, and then you CAN discern the real one - BUT because no attack roll has been made against the images, they don't disappear when struck by the Magic Missle, and thus the caster can "reshuffle" the images on his next move if he wants to. I'd basically say that the magic missles pass right through the images.

The text for Magic Missle doesn't say that you can't specify objects, illusions, or whatever as TARGETS for the spell, it simply says that the spell doesn't affect them. Thus, the spell goes off, the missle goes right through the image, and does not disrupt it, because a magic missle is not capable of damaging an illusion.

Thus, if faced with an opponent with 2 images (three of him) and I have 3 magic missles to divide, I could divide them up, and know that one of them would hit the correct target. While all the images would react as if they'd been hit by the spell, I could tell which image was HIT by the missle, and which images the missles simply passed through and did not affect (even though they'd react as if they DID get affected)

However, none of the images would disappear, and the wizard could then re-shuffle the images so that the mage couldn't follow up that Magic missle with a "Melf's Acid Arrow" or something targeted at the caster.

 

[Dash Dannigan]

Icebear:Correct, but images cannot be specifically targeted. Only the character under effect of the MI spell. That is only one target. Other targets can be effected but these will be other characters of course.

 

[Dash Dannigan]

In my opinion, reading the spell...

I would rule that you CAN split up a magic missle to affect multiple images, and then you CAN discern the real one - BUT because no attack roll has been made against the images, they don't disappear when struck by the Magic Missle, and thus the caster can "reshuffle" the images on his next move if he wants to. I'd basically say that the magic missles pass right through the images.

The text for Magic Missle doesn't say that you can't specify objects, illusions, or whatever as TARGETS for the spell, it simply says that the spell doesn't affect them. Thus, the spell goes off, the missle goes right through the image, and does not disrupt it, because a magic missle is not capable of damaging an illusion.

Thus, if faced with an opponent with 2 images (three of him) and I have 3 magic missles to divide, I could divide them up, and know that one of them would hit the correct target. While all the images would react as if they'd been hit by the spell, I could tell which image was HIT by the missle, and which images the missles simply passed through and did not affect (even though they'd react as if they DID get affected)

However, none of the images would disappear, and the wizard could then re-shuffle the images so that the mage couldn't follow up that Magic missle with a "Melf's Acid Arrow" or something targeted at the caster.

Murrdox go back and read the FAQ Hyper posted. Spells that "target" do destroy images. The MM spell can only target creatures.

 

[IceBear]

Icebear:Correct, but images cannot be specifically targeted. Only the character under effect of the MI spell. That is only one target. Other targets can be effected but these will be other characters of course.

This seems a little weak to me. I understand what you're saying, but it just feels weak.

IceBear

 

[Murrdox]

Okay, with Dash's information from the FAQ, if it wants to say that targeted spells disrupt the images, then you could disrupt the images. But I disagree in that I think MM allows you to target the images if you want to, thus allowing you to destroy them.

The character gets to CHOOSE from amongst the images which one he is attacking. Thus, I do not see how the Mirror Image spell "interferes" with its targeting, causing it to target various images randomly.

Thus, when you cast Magic Missle, you don't just cast it at the caster of Mirror Image, you need to SPECIFY which image you are targetting. Thus, you should be able to specify different images.