Mithril

[Bastoche]

You have to swing a twice as light weapon at least sqrt(2) times faster to make as much damage. Which is around 1.41 times faster (let's say around 1.5 times). With the same argument, a twice as heavy weapon swung at less than 70 % of the normal weapon speed will make less damage.

I'm not suggesting any house rule, I'm not suggesting any rules modifications, all I say is that heavy weapons from MoF and mercurial weapons from S&F are an absolute and total conceptual crap ! If they said it was entirely magical (which is a system that already exists !!!) I would buy it. But their "physical" argument utterly sucks.

The thing I suggest is: Ignore weigth consideration in damage attribution. Heavier weapon are just that (from a rulewise point of view), heavier. Lighter weapon are just lighter. Reintroducing green steel weapons, golden weapons and all that crap in MoF was a HUGE mistake IMO !

I know it's a fantasy game, anything's possible within that frameset, but I hate it when I see bad physics put to wrong uses.

There's a maxium speed a person can move at.

I'm pretty sure I don't entirely agree on that, not when we consider that this person holds a "6-8 pounds 6 foot and more" sword in hand...

Of course if the weapon the guy is holding is so light that a lighter weapon won't go faster, I agree. But we're speaking of a greatsword here, right ?

[edit]: another thought: Why aren't golf club made heavier ? It's the exact same principle. They aren't. In fact they are made lighter and lighter...

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Golf clubs are made light and lighter because they have been given more and more flexible shafts that alow them to flex and act as a force multiplier. The shaft flexibility and club head weight have to be carefully balanced or you lose control when you hit the golf club.

[edit]: another thought: Why aren't golf club made heavier ? It's the exact same principle. They aren't. In fact they are made lighter and lighter...

 

[Bastoche]

The shaft flexibility and club head weight have to be carefully balanced or you lose control when you hit the golf club.

Why ? (sorry, this is slipping off topic )

 

[JacktheRabbit]

This is going a lit beyond my knowledge but I will do my best. If the two are not properly balanced then the shalt can bend in odd ways urign the swing. The result can be the head hitting the ball at an unintened angle and sending it somewhere other than where you were aiming.

Why ? (sorry, this is slipping off topic )

 

[Wolf72]

yeah if the primary hull is twisted, it might tear the ship apart when you go to warp ...

oh right, sorry

 

[Umbran]

Okay, here's one major reason why one shouldn't try too hard to include "real" science in analysis of game materials. The dynamics of doing damage, and of the mercurial greatsword, are not nearly so simple as they have been portrayed.

Putting cutting edges aside for a moment...
The damage done to a body by a strike is generally not a direct function of the energy of the striking object. After all, an automobile imparts roughly the same energy to you speeding you up to highway speeds as it does when you crash it into the bridge abutment. The second is harnmful, the first is not.

The damage done by a weapon is only peripherally related to it's kinetic energy. It is more directly related to the "impulse" (the change in momentum) it imparts to the target. The impulse is more directly related to the force with which you hit than to the total kinetic energy of the weapon.

So, the question isn't one of how much energy you hit with as it is one of how hard you hit. The mercurial greatsword doesn't do more damage because it is heavier, but because it's center of mass shifts during the swing, so that it can strike with greater force.

And yes, this does work in the real world. IIRC, some of the guidelines for construction of aluminum baseball bats are there specifically to prevent these shenanigans.

And when you start talking about cutting edges and flesh and bone, things get more complicated. So over-analysis is not your friend. Relax a bit about technical details, and worry more about whether it gives you a good story and imagry.

 

[CRGreathouse]

If it's a function of impulse, the weapon itself would be irrelevant - one could impart about the same impulse on a light weapon as a heavy weapon. Unless it's extreme on either end (low impulse for a 1 pound or 100 pound object), it's irrelevant.

I'm not sure that this is the case; warhammers are heavy for a reason, so I think energy does factor in.

Why are heavy weapons useable? Gravity helps you increase your speed with downward blows.

 

[Bastoche]

I get your point, but force is so closely related to energy... and so much more simple than force.

Anyway, my point is not about each particular cases I've portrayed here. My point is D&D is a fantasy game. Why meddle with pseudo-physics when you got magic ?

And to return to topic, I would rule the following:

- Mithril weapon must be masterworks weapons
- Mithril weapon does exactly the same damage as their normal counterpart
- Mithril weapons are half as light and get a better hardness.
- Mithril weapons cost 500gp/pounds

And most of all:

- Mithril weapon is a very good idea role-playing wise !

I wouldn't meddle with damage. I would delete the MoF part about heavy weapon and I would throw mercurial weapons in the trash it belongs.

That of course, is all IMHO

 

[Bastoche]

Why are heavy weapons useable? Gravity helps you increase your speed with downward blows.

In that case, you would benefit both from higher mass and greater velocity ! But try keep you guard up...

Oh and about that mass argument: there is the important matter of density, i.e. where the mass is spread. I told you it was a very simple model

 

[CRGreathouse]

- Mithril weapon must be masterworks weapons
- Mithril weapon does exactly the same damage as their normal counterpart
- Mithril weapons are half as light and get a better hardness.
- Mithril weapons cost 500gp/pounds

And most of all:

- Mithril weapon is a very good idea role-playing wise !

I wouldn't meddle with damage. I would delete the MoF part about heavy weapon and I would throw mercurial weapons in the trash it belongs.

I agree with all 8 of your points here.