MM excerpt: phane

[med stud]

Right, but every monster we've seen so far deals similarly small damage. I think it's more likely that damage output has just been significantly reduced in 4e compared to 3e.

I think this is more or less stated outright somewhere (can't remember where). Since groups of monsters are the norm now, you have to take "focused fire" into account when coming up with monster damages. It also means that the spell Heal is less imperative now.

 

[Mirtek]

I really hope they have Atropals in MM1, because those were cool.

Actually I hope they are gone. Their coolness is over as soon as you have a someone at your table who had to suffer the loss of an unborn child. It's a tasteless concept for a D&D monster.

Whith millions of D&D gamers worldwide this sad fate certainly has struck quite a few of them, and such an reminder doesn't belong into the game (at the very least keep it out of the core rules).

 

[Nymrohd]

An atropal is a key character in one of the FR series that seems to deal with the 3.5-4E crossover so I think they have a secure position for conversion at some point.

 

[Mirtek]

for I am the primeval personification of time itself!'

Well, he isn't. He's just a lesser aspect of the primeval personification of time created by the true primeval personification of time to fight as soldier in it's war.

I hope the deity/primordial of time will have more abilities to manipulate time (as they are the true primeval personification of time).

 

[Fallen Seraph]

An atropal is a key character in one of the FR series that seems to deal with the 3.5-4E crossover so I think they have a secure position for conversion at some point.

However, the artwork in the W&M for the atropal is quite different from before. It looks like a fully grown being, not a unborn child.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

Right, but every monster we've seen so far deals similarly small damage. I think it's more likely that damage output has just been significantly reduced in 4e compared to 3e.

That's the overriding impression I've been getting as well. Both characters and monsters will be doing less damage per round - this is going to have a big impact on the way the game works and is much more likely to help games feature more excellent moments and stop the buff/scry/teleport tactic that dominated high-level 3e play.

 

[Voss]

Ugh. A weird centaur-cat time thing?
This is the kind of goofy monster that was all over the 3e books that I disliked so much. I didn't really expect them to go, but I'm still a little sad they continue to exist.

Uninspired, overall, both in abilities and concept. Its a giant bag of hit points, with a few random powers. Plus, really, opening the manipulation of time can of worms never goes well.

And yay, another creature that enjoys random destruction. Though apparently it can't actually dish it out. Say one of these things attacks a town. The entire town militia turns out. 50 odd people, say. A level 1 human guard... can't be taken down in 1 round by this thing. (except if it spends its 1 action point). So it would take a full 100 rounds, minimum for this high level, destructive beast to wipe out the guards of a small town. Meanwhile, you put 40 punks with bows on rooftops and roll for 20s. You only need 48 hits with longbows to kill it. Over 100 rounds, sadly I think the townies win. Maybe 96 if insubstansial is really half damage, but I'm still not terribly impressed.

 

[phloog]

I'm with some of the other posters here - - to me this seems like the bad side effect of the 'no save or die effects' philosophy.

Yes, it absolutely stinks to lose levels, or ability points, or die outright, or AGE...but I think that you kick a lot of the dramatic tension right out the window when you do things like this.

"Look out, Egaddz! It's a Phane!!! If he manages to strike any of us with his epic dread power, we will be briefly penalized! And what is more, we will APPEAR TO BE OLD...until it wears off"

Actually, it's more like a bad side effect of 'no save or die' AND the 'Monster Squad' philosophy...now we have an "epic" creature who makes you look like Irene Ryan for a moment while his far-less-epic friends pummel you.

 

[AllisterH]

I'm reserving judgement until we see a high level PC.

Reason why I say this is because the 3E PHANE at first glance, looks very impressive. Check it out, in the SRD and I was really jazzed up about DMing it.

The reality? Perfect example of why High-Level just plain sucked. If the PCs were prepared for it, they could kill it in one round without any trouble. If the PCs couldn't kill it in one round, they certainly would finish it off in the next.

Conversely, if the PCs weren't optimized/prepared, the Phane would kill a PC every round and you end up with a TPK in short order.

There was NO middle ground, you didn't get actual rounds but worse, the actual time it took for the battle was so unsatisfying. The pre-battle plan would take almost 30 minutes which would result in a 45 minute one round encounter.

As a DM, high level was all types of FAIL,

To those that want a complicated monster, you can have the 3E Phane. I just can't imagine said people actually being DMs given what tended to happen with "complex" monsters.

Seriously, to the people decrying the simpler monsters, have you EVER actually DM one of the more statblock heavy creatures at hgih levels?

 

[Guild Goodknife]

I'm reserving judgement until we see a high level PC.

Reason why I say this is because the 3E PHANE at first glance, looks very impressive. Check it out, in the SRD and I was really jazzed up about DMing it.

The reality? Perfect example of why High-Level just plain sucked. If the PCs were prepared for it, they could kill it in one round without any trouble. If the PCs couldn't kill it in one round, they certainly would finish it off in the next.

Conversely, if the PCs weren't optimized/prepared, the Phane would kill a PC every round and you end up with a TPK in short order.

There was NO middle ground, you didn't get actual rounds but worse, the actual time it took for the battle was so unsatisfying. The pre-battle plan would take almost 30 minutes which would result in a 45 minute one round encounter.

As a DM, high level was all types of FAIL,

To those that want a complicated monster, you can have the 3E Phane. I just can't imagine said people actually being DMs given what tended to happen with "complex" monsters.

Seriously, to the people decrying the simpler monsters, have you EVER actually DM one of the more statblock heavy creatures at hgih levels?

This is soooo true. Especially this(for pretty much all of our Highlevel battles):

The pre-battle plan would take almost 30 minutes which would result in a 45 minute one round encounter.