MM IV Details

[Shade]

Can I get a "hell yeah"?

I've disliked the changes to the prestige class format, the NPC format, and now the monster format. I seem like an "I fear change" fella, but I was quite fond of the changes they made to the monster stat blocks from 3.0 to 3.5, the changes they attempted in the Fiend Folio (including summon monster info in description, etc.). I'm also fond of many of the changes to 3.5 in general. Oh well, the game is growing more and more geared towards newbies, emphasizing "how to" or "I'll do it for you" over tools for veterans. Bummer.

 

[Garnfellow]

Ugh. Very, very disappointed.

Is the level adjustment no longer listed?

A few of my many problems with the format:

• No listing of AC breakdowns (important if they cast spells that might conflict/not stack with certain types of bonuses)
• Repetition of information (Spot and Listen in two places, for example)
• No hp breakdown (I like the Con separated out)

At least we only have to use them for published articles.

Actually, looking at the Dungeon issue again, AC is broken out for the new monsters. After the touch and flat-footed AC there's a semicolon and then the breakout. For example:

AC 25, touch 11, flat-footed 23; -1 size, +2 Dex, +14 natural

I'm not too excited about the repitition, either; I wouldn't be surprised if in future version they don't drop Listen and Spot from the Skills line, and maybe the Atk Option feats from the Feat line.

I miss the Con info and the creature HD a little, but not too much.

 

[Garnfellow]

damn right - i'm not changing the CC format for that! i like things the way they are. change for change's sake is not always a good thing.

I wouldn't change the CC either, if I were in your shoes, but I really don't see this as change for change's sake or, as someone else suggested earlier, some nefarious WotC plot.

The new layout has considerably better functionality in play -- it's far easier to find the info you need, especially in the middle of a big combat with complex monsters. I've already seen tremendous difference.

 

[Shade]

That's good news on the AC breakdown. <whew>

I suppose it's all a matter of perspective...I find the new statblocks incredibly difficult to use during a game (I tried 'em out with a few critters out of recent Magazines). They just don't seem intuitive.

Were people really having trouble finding info with the old format? I can honestly say I never saw a post on these boards indicating anyone finding them unwieldy, until the new format was released.

 

[BOZ]

Shade and i have spent a great deal of time with the old (i hate calling them old) stat blocks, and we're very familiar with them - so someone who has not done so may not be as familiar with them and may have a hard time finding what they're looking for. i know i've never had to waste any time during a combat to look for a monster's particular stat for a particular thing, but i've had to help other people before.

 

[Shade]

I suppose my viewpoint is skewed, as I play with a group of veterans going all the way back to 1E or even before.

 

[Garnfellow]

Well, I'm probably biased because my regular group is usually between 8 and 10 players, all with high level characters. Add in animal companions, cohorts, and summoned monsters, and I need every single bit of help I can find in managing information during even a relatively simple encounter.

I don't think the problem with the old statblock was so much that people couldn't fiind the information at all, as in, "Duh, I know this thing has damage reduction, but where is it listed, ???????" but that they couldn't find useful information quickly, as in "OK, the monster gestures at you and a black cone of energy shoots from one of its tenacles. The cone strikes, uh, let's see . . . uh . . . no . . . oh, OK . . . it strikes Timon and . . . uh . . . oh, there IS a save . . . you need to make a Saving Throw, Timon . . . uh . . . Reflex . . . let me see . . . the DC should be . . . [calculating silently]"

The new statblock is designed to present information more-or-less in the order you need it or in the order of importance.You start at the top and work your way down. Does the monster see the PCs? OK, there's the notice skills, right at the top of the statblock. If the encounter starts, what's its Init modifier? If the PCs want to talk, can it respond? And so on.

Putting things like DCs, attack bonuses, or brief effect summaries up in the stat lines (like "Special Atk poison (DC 14, 1d4 Str/1d2 Str)") makes it easier to grab these little details in the midst of melee. I find just bolding the stat block headings makes it much easier to quickly put my finger on what I need.

But to me, the biggest problem with the old statblock format wasn't that I couldn't find info I knew was there . . . it was missing important things that I didn't remember and were buried deep in that big ole blob of text. I couldn't tell you how many encounters I have run where afterwards I realized I had forgotten something like spell resistance or energy resistance or an important immunity, even though it was sitting right there in my old format statblock.

I've found that, espeically with high-level or complex monsters, the new statblock format does a great job of "reminding" me of those little abilities that otherwise got forgotten in the heat of a massive melee.

 

[BOZ]

i definitely agree about listing DCs in the SA line makes them easier to remember (i often do that when writing out a stat block for a specific combat), but that should not be a substitute for reading what the ability actually does

anyway, the rest of that is subjective though; some will prefer one format over the other. what i'm resenting (and i'm really not in a position to argue it, unfortunately) is that the rest of us are being dragged along with what some want. but that's just the way of things, i suppose.

 

[Knightfall]

For those wanting to take a closer look at the new stats block, WotC's website is highlighting the new format in its latest D&D Fight Club article.

Chuladoal (Fiendish Gravetouched Ghoul Swarm-Shifter Troll)
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20051209a

Geez, and I thought I was bad for adding templates.

KF72

 

[Shade]

Thanks for the "heads up". I still don't like it. And what the heck is the "hooks" line?