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[MnM] How many Incorpreal/Invisible/ etc. characters do you have in your games?
- Thread starter Voneth
- Start date
i haven't played the game enough to comment on the frequency of that tactic, but it seems to me it'd be fairly easy to combat.
see invisibility is right there in the feat list. there's quite a few Detect feats i could think of that would work. ghost touch is an extra available to most powers.
it's a "loophole" inasmuch as the player doesn't think the GM will have or make up characters to counter it. but it shouldn't be too hard to do so. (i'm sure you've already taken care of that!)
see invisibility is right there in the feat list. there's quite a few Detect feats i could think of that would work. ghost touch is an extra available to most powers.
it's a "loophole" inasmuch as the player doesn't think the GM will have or make up characters to counter it. but it shouldn't be too hard to do so. (i'm sure you've already taken care of that!)
mistergone
First Post
It's not a trend, it's a twinky munchkin powergamer thing. I'm mildly surprised that you find it unusual, or surprising, or whatever. I expect certain types of players to pull crap like this. Personally, I can't imagine the mentalitiy behind it. I'd really like to question someone who comes up with this character type, to see what they're thinking/expecting. Do they somehow think that this combination will allow them to "win" the game? Do they genuinely expect that it will allow them to succeed more often? It boggles my mind, and strengthens my resolve to have only players totally new to supers gaming in my first M&M game, as difficult as that might be to accomplish.
Victim
First Post
I've never found Invis/Incorporeal guys to be that powerful. For our group, I made 2 pretty nice characters: one power armor guy, and one guy with incorp, invis, obscure, surprise strike, teleport - only between shadows, strength drain, and 2 ghost touch weapons. He was alot like a DnD shadow or shadow dancer. While a versatile and cool ability set, it didn't seem overpowered at all.
I'd be more worried about other character types. For a hero who will be in power armor most of the time, the device flaw isn't that much of a problem, though it provides good cost savings. Also, armor is a valid source of many secondary powers like smoke launchers, different sensory modes, etc.
Characters combining high speed movement with strong melee attacks and defenses are also pretty tough. Str based attacks can get you +15 damage at PL before using any feats or manuevers. With high speed flight, the lack of range isn't much of an issue, and your attacks are blowing away the PL cap. An original build a certain way can have a +17 damage save, 50 ft, and +15 damage. If he rams a guy from 90 ft away, that's +24 damage with no chance of self injury (+9 damage vs Protection 10). Then add in Power Attack. Bye-bye Mr. Atomic brain.
I'd be more worried about other character types. For a hero who will be in power armor most of the time, the device flaw isn't that much of a problem, though it provides good cost savings. Also, armor is a valid source of many secondary powers like smoke launchers, different sensory modes, etc.
Characters combining high speed movement with strong melee attacks and defenses are also pretty tough. Str based attacks can get you +15 damage at PL before using any feats or manuevers. With high speed flight, the lack of range isn't much of an issue, and your attacks are blowing away the PL cap. An original build a certain way can have a +17 damage save, 50 ft, and +15 damage. If he rams a guy from 90 ft away, that's +24 damage with no chance of self injury (+9 damage vs Protection 10). Then add in Power Attack. Bye-bye Mr. Atomic brain.
Victim said:
That is essentally becasue we are talking about two different things, you seem to worry about how much damage a PC can do. Those that commenting on the double ii combo are saying such characters are trying to avoid being touched for any damage at all.
I let a guy run Incorp in a more realistic setting for few sessions and I had to put a stop to it. Without esoteric stuff, the Incorp guy was untouchable. Once in a regular comic book setting, the player just dropped the power. Now he has to actualy ask for things that are obvious rule breakers.
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Victim
First Post
A 50% miss chance isn't all that special, especially since an entire class of attacks defeats it. And the movement abilities, while useful, are comparable to other powers like Tunneling or Teleport. Also, you either have to buy an extra on your attacks or on your Incorporeal to attack things. While Incorporeal is one of the few defense modes that can block high PL attacks, it's also one of the weaker defenses against low power attacks. Ready actions can also be used to defeat move-by attacks from solid objects.
Invisibility isn't that great either. Not even counting super science, there are lots of ways to detect "invisible" things. Remember that invis is limited by the sfx of the sensory modes. Anything beyond the first sense is an extra. Night vision based that works off thermal images would still work on the guy you can't see or hear. Ready actions, especially with area attacks, also work. Finally, many character types will have some form of super senses to detect him automatically.
Invisibility isn't that great either. Not even counting super science, there are lots of ways to detect "invisible" things. Remember that invis is limited by the sfx of the sensory modes. Anything beyond the first sense is an extra. Night vision based that works off thermal images would still work on the guy you can't see or hear. Ready actions, especially with area attacks, also work. Finally, many character types will have some form of super senses to detect him automatically.
Kichwas
Half-breed
Players have been thinking this since V&V came out (late 70s)...
It's almost always a serious error in judgement.
There is no -immune to the game- option in MnM, as you'll quickly find once you start using a number of telepaths, dazzler's, and so on.
I have yet to use these powers at all in my game, nor see any player desire to use them.
It's almost always a serious error in judgement.
There is no -immune to the game- option in MnM, as you'll quickly find once you start using a number of telepaths, dazzler's, and so on.
I have yet to use these powers at all in my game, nor see any player desire to use them.
having invisibility means the enemies who can see you attack you first.
having incorporeal means the same thing, except there is a whole lot more villains with the powers that can affect you while incorporeal than there are likely ones with see invis or an appropriate detect.
having incorporeal means the same thing, except there is a whole lot more villains with the powers that can affect you while incorporeal than there are likely ones with see invis or an appropriate detect.
I've got one player with the Incorporeal power, and the current villain has access to it (he's a Sorcerer). I decided on a house rule to deal with incorporeal characters in combat: if one incorporeal character wants to touch another, the two make an opposed power check (d20 + power rank). If the toucher wins the roll, he can touch his target. If the touchee wins, he can't be touched. I tend to think of Incorporeal working as the character being slightly out of phase with other matter, and if two people are doing that, who's to say they might not be on the same "frequency"? 
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