Modernist and Postmodernist RPGs?

[Korgoth]

That's Platonism.

I wasn't talking about the Good. The "individual absolutely abstracted from reality" in Descartes is the res cogitans.

There are certain similarities. In Plato the intellect is illumined by the Good. In Descartes knowledge comes by the operation of the individual intellect, with God acting as the Creator of the individual and also the guarantor of the intellect's veracity (as long as it remains focused on the clear and distinct).

 

[Wayside]

I wasn't talking about the Good. The "individual absolutely abstracted from reality" in Descartes is the res cogitans.

There are certain similarities. In Plato the intellect is illumined by the Good. In Descartes knowledge comes by the operation of the individual intellect, with God acting as the Creator of the individual and also the guarantor of the intellect's veracity (as long as it remains focused on the clear and distinct).

One of the major readings of Descartes sees this entire line of reasoning as committing him to a kind of Platonism, which I imagine is what Samnell was referring to. In any case, Descartes was not a modernist. Your typical survey of modern philosophy will use him as a point of departure, and he is certainly modern, but not a modernist. You do begin to see modernism, and to an extent postmodernism, in Hume and Kant, but like I said before, there are few clear distinctions. As a general rule, you can find elements of any -ism in the thought of just about any age. The activity of selectively combining these elements to form broad stories about the 'spirit' of this or that age, which is what most people have in mind when they talk about 'history,' has probably caught as much flak as any from the postmodern critique of metanarratives (a critique which began, of course, before the 20th century or so-called postmodernism).

 

[Samnell]

One of the major readings of Descartes sees this entire line of reasoning as committing him to a kind of Platonism, which I imagine is what Samnell was referring to.

I was. I almost said idealism instead, but since the context was historical exemplars I figured referring to Plato and his Forms directly more pertinent.

 

[jim pinto]

It's much easier to look at games in terms of (post)structuralism though.

I agree. This is a much more accurate way to look at RPGs.

Ironically, post-structuralism is a type of critical theory stemming from post-modernism.

 

[Korgoth]

One of the major readings of Descartes sees this entire line of reasoning as committing him to a kind of Platonism, which I imagine is what Samnell was referring to. In any case, Descartes was not a modernist. Your typical survey of modern philosophy will use him as a point of departure, and he is certainly modern, but not a modernist. You do begin to see modernism, and to an extent postmodernism, in Hume and Kant, but like I said before, there are few clear distinctions. As a general rule, you can find elements of any -ism in the thought of just about any age. The activity of selectively combining these elements to form broad stories about the 'spirit' of this or that age, which is what most people have in mind when they talk about 'history,' has probably caught as much flak as any from the postmodern critique of metanarratives (a critique which began, of course, before the 20th century or so-called postmodernism).

I won't insist on dragging this thread way off topic by giving a detailed response. But in the main I think I agree... I just wanted to point out that Descartes is one of the principal culprits in terms of shifting the focus onto the individual in abstraction from the real. But it's an evolutionary (well, I'd say "devolutionary", but that's a separate discussion) process so you can't say this or that element is the purely decisive one... like I pointed out, Descartes is responding to guys like Cusanus and Montaigne. So maybe they're the decisive point... except oops, now we have to go back to Ockham and Scotus, etc.

On the other hand, I also see the postmodern critique of history as self-refuting. Couldn't hit "submit reply" without throwing that in.

 

[STARP_Social_Officer]

A postmodern D&D game:
Nobody plays, and instead we all go ice skating with chickens on our head.
Then we claim we slayed a dragon.
Ironically.

 

[Umbran]

I tend to think of "Modernism" as arising with guys like Descartes

Dude, René Descartes died in 1650. I have a hard time considering the thoughts of a guy who died more than a century before the American Revolution as "modern".

 

[Wild Gazebo]

If you were living in 1645 you wouldn't.

 

[Rackhir]

Modernism is a response to Romanticism....

MY BRAIN HURTS!

 

[Umbran]

If you were living in 1645 you wouldn't.

True. And we wouldn't call Shakespeare "Renaissance literature" if we were living in the Renaissance.

If the guy who coined the term "modernism" were living in 1645, we'd be cool. But having done some poking around since this thread began, to re-educate myself a bit. Every source I can find calls modernism a movement of the early 20th century. That's long after evolution, and long after Descartes.