Modified Cleric

[perivas]

In a few of the recent campaigns I have been in, we all noticed that the cleric seems to now be overpowered in DnD, 3rd edition, when compared to some of the other classes. This seems especially true when people aren't min/maxing. The cleric's inherent powers are just better than the others. So, in a new campaign I'll be running, I've decided to tweek the cleric a bit.

Here's what I have come up with, what does this community think?

New Cleric Class

- All powers are the same except as noted below.
- Clerics are not automatically proficient with heavy armor. They are still proficient with light and medium armor and shields.
- Clerics do not get the extra domain spell per day. Clerics do not spontaneously cast cure/inflict spells. Instead, the cleric has access to all of the domains of his/her deity and can spontaneously cast spells from these domains. (I liked this change because it made picking one's god matter not only in the roleplaying aspect but in inherent powers as well.)
- Clerics do not receive the powers from two domains automatically. Instead, they choose a power from among his/her deity's domains at levels 1, 5, 10, 15 and 20.
- Anyone turning undead use the tables below:
Turning Check Result Most Powerful Undead Affected
Up to 0 Always fail
1 - 3 CL - 5
4 - 6 CL - 4
7 - 9 CL - 3
10 - 12 CL - 2
13 - 15 CL - 1
16 - 18 CL
19 - 21 CL + 1
22 - 24 CL + 2
25+ CL + 3
- Clerics may only attempt to turn once per encounter.

 

[Xarlen]

This means that anyone who's a cleric is going to play the gods with the most domains, flat out. Thus, no clerics of anything that isn't Greater POwer.

 

[StealthyMark]

Huh? You want to tone down the cleric by giving him more power?

- Spontaneous Casting
Standard: 5 Spells (Cure/Inflict Minor/Light/Moderate/Serious/Critical Wounds)
New: 9 Spells x 5 Domains - about 45 Spells!

- Domain Powers
Standard: Choose two an level 1
New: Choose one on levels 1, 5, 10, 15 and 20 - 5 Domain Powers on level 20!

- Spells
Standard: 1 Domain spell slot per day
New: No Domain spell slot per day - That's actually the only minus, you have now as much spells as a wizard.

- Armor proficiencies
Standard: Light, Medium, Heavy
New: Light, Medium - Many ways to circumvent this: multiclassing, Feat, Mithril armor.

- Turning/Rebuking
Standard: Quite powerful, useability depends on campaign.
New: looks like a -3 effective turning penalty.

 

[CRGreathouse]

1. I don't reccomend changing the cleric in these ways.
2. If you really want to, go to the House Rules forum.

 

[Forrester]

I was thinking of modifying clerics along similar lines -- and I think it's baloney that your changes make clerics more powerful.

Unless . . . well, the clerics can spontaneously cast from their god's domains. Can they still memorize spells of ANY domain? If that's the case, then I don't think your changes do much re power; you take away a spell/level, heavy armor, and weaken turning, but you give them a lot of spontaneous casting.

That's pretty much a wash in my book. Maybe even a small boost in power -- *maybe*. But probably not -- how many spells can a 10th level cleric spontaneous cast? 15 (3 domains, right)? That's not much.

 

[StealthyMark]

how many spells can a 10th level cleric spontaneous cast? 15 (3 domains, right)? That's not much.

How many spells can a 10th level sorcerer cast? 15 (1st through 5th level). That's not much.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

How about: The cleric is perfectly fine the way it is. Except for an houserule for harm, of course

My campaign is now level 11 and the cleric isn't overshadowing anyone. Not all the time anyway, it's hard to be more efficient than the (good) cleric against undead! But otherwise he is just a useful member of the team.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

1. I don't reccomend changing the cleric in these ways.
2. If you really want to, go to the House Rules forum.

I agree. You have made the cleric more powerful and at the same time made them less effective as party healers.

And this thread should be in house rules.

--Jerky Spikey

 

[Forrester]

How many spells can a 10th level sorcerer cast? 15 (1st through 5th level). That's not much.

Don't be dense.

The sorcerer gets to pick (usually very very carefully) what those fifteen spells are going to be. They can be the optimal top-powered spells for that level -- magic missile, web, fly, haste, fireball, stoneskin, etc.

The cleric is stuck with whatever the domain spells are, even if they're extraordinarily situation-specific poop like Obscuring Mist or Shatter or Sanctuary.

And, wow, deja vu -- I've had almost exactly this conversation this last week with another group of gamers.

And my other point to them, which is my point to you, is this: clerics shouldn't be compared to sorcerers in any case, because sorcerers are substandard compared to clerics to begin with. (Pure non-multiclassed) clerics are better than (pure non-multiclassed) sorcerers, so why should a New Cleric be compared to sorcerers just because the New Cleric is spontaneously casting (often crappy) spells?

 

[sfgiants]

The cleric is as good as it needs to be. By a pure numbers way of playing, the cleric will be the most powerful class always. However, we don't play this game purely by the numbers. Gods grant abilities for a reason. If the goals and desires of the church/deity, as well as the basic tenets of a religion do not hamper the cleric (or aren't roleplayed), then there is a problem and the player and dm have missed a huge point in regards to the cleric.