Modifying Cleric to be more like Wizard

[Einlanzer0]

@Einlanzer0 If you haven't already, I'd suggest putting the naysayers on ignore and moving on.

For your cleric class, you may want to poach some spells from the wizard, Mage armour might be a good one as has been mentioned.

I'd suggest giving the priest Arcane Recovery since they will be relying more on spells than melee. Land druids have the same ability so it seems to be a common ability for full caster classes that focus a little more on casting spells. I'm not 100% sure, but you may want to limit the domains for this version of the cleric to the caster domains or at least swap out divine strike with potent spell casting at level 8. You may also want to look at swapping out some of the Domain's weapon/armour proficiencies since they won't really make sense for this version of the cleric. Perhaps give a life cleric proficiency with medicine and a herbalist kit in place of heavy armour proficiency, for instance.

Thanks for helping me get back on track. Speaking of druids, one of the things I did consider was simply giving clerics access to the druid's spell list as well. It has the benefit of being incredibly simple, but I'm sure it would propose some balance challenges. I definitely considered Arcane Recovery, but I would prefer to have it be a bit more unique (I suggested a variant of it using Channel Divinity earlier in the thread).

 

[Lehrbuch]

Although I'm pretty sure that historically priest that were present on a battlefield at the very least wanted to wear armor.

Assuming we mean "medieval Europe" by historical, then certainly priests (and other religious orders) were present on/near battlefields unarmed and unarmoured. But as non-combatants, and sometimes also as martyrs. This was because it was literally illegal for priests to be combatants.

Unless they happened to be in a military order, of course, in which case they would wear armour, ride warhorses, and carry swords, etc. I suppose that is what Paladins are sort of meant to be.

And, of course, some priests (esp. if they happened to also be nobles) just fought anyway, despite it being illegal (and so would wear armour, use weapons, etc).

 

[Xeviat]

"They can wear Leather Armor" speaks to "you can voluntarily weaken your character if it fits your story", which is not really something that someone in a life or death situation is going to do. As the Cleric is not a Dex focused class, it would be quite painful for them to just wear light armor or no armor without getting a little something from somewhere.

Considering "Lightly Armored" is a feat that gives +1 Str or Dex and proficiency with Light armor, we can go out on a limb and say that proficiency with light armor is worth half a feat. "Moderately Armored" is in the same position, giving +1 to Str or Dex, but it gives you Medium Armor and Shields.

"Magic Initiate" is also a feat. It grants 2 cantrips (wow, I thought it was one) and 1 1st level spell 1/day. One could use this feat to pick up Mage Armor (which the errata says you could recast with your own spell slots if you got dispelled or had a long day). As Mage Armor is 13+Dex AC, it's better than light armor (+1 AC) and better than chainshirt actually (no max Dex, though this doesn't apply to the Cleric much).

What's my point? I say giving up Light and Medium armor and Shield proficiency should be worth AT LEAST a base 13+Dex AC (If not 10+Dex+Wis).

 

[Xeviat]

Found it on the first page, I think I must have missed it the first time around.

Tying it to Channel Divinity would make sense since that is uniquely tied to the divine classes. Spend their channel divinity to regain a spell slot equal to half their level (minimum 1st level) with a maximum of 6th level.

This would give them more spell slots a day than the wizard, as channel divinity recovers after a short rest but the Wizard's Arcane Recovery recovers after a long rest (though it takes a short rest to do it).

 

[Yunru]

On a more productive angel, you're probably going to want some weird mashup of the Cleric, Wizard and Monk as a base. Obviously you're not going to want the combat stuff of the Monk, but it has a lot of unarmored stuff.

 

[Kryx]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned DMG 287 yet:

You can also change armor and weapon proficiencies to reflect certain aspects of your world. For example, you could decide that the clerics of a particular deity belong to an order that forbids the accumulation of material goods, other than magic items useful for their divine mission. Such clerics carry a staff, but they are forbidden from wearing armor or using weapons other than that staff. To reflect this, you could remove the armor and weapon proficiencies for clerics of this faith, making them proficient with the quarterstaff and nothing else. You could give them a benefit to make up for the loss of proficiencies- something like the monk's Unarmored Defense class feature, but presented as a divine blessing.

 

[Einlanzer0]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned DMG 287 yet:

Yeah, but that alone is not adequate for a couple of reasons. One, I would prefer if this variant wasn't expected to be in the front lines at all, as opposed to the expectation of unarmored melee combat. This means making changes particularly to the domains that assume a certain amount of melee combat. This is a simple thing to address by just always granting bonus cantrip and potent spellcasting regardless of the domain choice (instead of bonus proficiencies or divine strike). However, that alone doesn't compensate for the reduced HP and AC.

I think what I'm really going to try first is not giving them any extra unarmored defense, but instead expanding their spell list modestly (including an equivalent for Mage Armor) and giving them the "Epiphany" feature I mentioned early on as a modified version of Arcane Recovery that also lets them swap out a prepared spell. I probably won't have it tie into to Channel Divinity because that introduces scaling challenges.

 

[Kryx]

Unarmored defense doesn't mean melee any more than mage armor does. They accomplish the same goal.

A priest in wow always had more HP than a wizard so o personally wouldn't go for d6 hp, but the route you're taking of lower hp for spell recharge seems good.

 

[Einlanzer0]

I think mage armour is a better choice over unarmoured defence for this class varient.

If you have the old 4e books then you could look at the invoker powers and do some quick conversions.

Yeah, I agree. I'll work on revising the spell list next.

Here's the version of Arcane Recovery I'm thinking I'll try out first. More insights are appreciated.

Epiphany - Once per day during a short rest, you can change one of your prepared spells for another spell you can cast. Upon doing so, you regain a spell slot of a level the newly chosen spell can be cast at. The maximum level for the recovered slot is your maximum spell level - 1.

I think this is a good thematic fit, and it's appropriately distinct from Arcane Recovery. It's a bit weaker in terms of recovery, but tying it to a free spell swap capitalizes on the cleric's access to a broader range of spells. The only issue I see is that, assuming I allow 1st level slots to be recovered before 2nd level spell slots are acquired, it's actually stronger than Arcane Recovery for the first few levels. But, at that level, requiring a spell swap to use it can be seen as a restriction in a way.

 

[Einlanzer0]

I'm wondering if it should be limited to 5th level. Spellcasting in 5e seems to really limit the number of 6th level or higher spell slots available to casters. Arcane recovery for instance tops out at 5th level maximum when restoring spell slots. The highest slots sorcerers can can create are 5th level and Warlocks only have access to 5th level spells as their maximum spell slot before moving on to 1/day mystic arcanum.

In this case, I'd perhaps make Epiphany usable twice/long rest at a higher level.

Yeah, you're probably right. I actually momentarily forgot that you couldn't go over 5th level with Arcane Recovery. I still think it should use highest level -1 until that point, though, which would keep it perpetually just behind the wizard in recovery potential starting at 3rd level. I can modify the feature to take that into account as well.

So, how about this:

Epiphany - Once per day during a short rest, you can regain a spell slot of any level below your highest spell level (minimum 1st, maximum 5th). Starting at 3rd level, you can also swap one of your prepared spells out for a new spell that can be cast at the same level of the slot you regained.