Modiphius 2d20 System Opinions?

TreChriron

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I'm currently playing in a Star Trek Adventures game online via Start Playing. I'm enjoying it but we just got started, so... I own several games (Infinity, John Carter of Mars, Star Trek 1 & 2) and I'm evaluating it for a setting I'm writing thinking of publishing on the Content Creator program on DTRPG.

Someone mentioned in the Star Wars thread that combat was clunky. Thoughts on the system? The good and the bad?

Thank you for your time and thoughts!
 

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I played three sessions of Achtung! Cthulhu recently, and the headline would be that we didn't think the juice was worth the squeeze.

It's a fiddly and rather meta system which has unexciting mechanics, and doesn't have the "cinematic action" it proposes that it is about. That's not to say the mechanics produce bad results. They don't - though they don't produce particularly exciting ones either. The only less-cinematic self-proclaimed cinematic RPG I've ever played was d20 Modern, which was just really bad at doing cinematic (especially next to games like Feng Shui).

It didn't seem agile, it's not fast (by 2020s RPG standards, sure it's a lot faster than Rolemaster or something), it's just not exciting. And there's too much hard work involved for it to be like that. Even 5E feels a lot more actually fun to play - or did for us, which is saying something. We did like the pregens though!

It was a very stark contrast to Mothership and Daggerheart, which we played around the same time.

I don't think it's a "bad system" in the sense of outright "badly designed", nor badly balanced but I do think it was a boring system that produced boring results for a group who generally don't have that issue at all. Like a C+ kind of system. Maybe a B- if you were feeling generous (and including A*/S in the grades).
 

I am a big fan of the system. The core mechanics works well and is intuitive, and I really think that Threat and Momentum makes for compelling gameplay with meaningful decisions to be made. I don't find the combat to be clunky, but it isn't necessarily the strong point of the system either. Note that I have not played Star Trek 2nd Edition, which as I understand it, has made some changes to the core.

One interesting thing about the 2d20 games is that they vary in their overall crunch level. Conan, for example, has more crunch than Star trek, and Fallout puts the crunch in different places.

Overall I am positive on 2d20 and don't get it when people express a frothing hatred for the system.
 

Someone mentioned in the Star Wars thread that combat was clunky. Thoughts on the system? The good and the bad?
I don't have a lot of experience with Star Trek, but I've run two Fallout campaigns so most of my complaints are going to be related to that particular 2d20 game. Combat can get tedious for a few reasons and the amount of hit points targets have is one of them. For a starting character, it might take them 2-4 hits to kill a radroach. I mean they have to get 2-4 hits with their 10mm pistol before that radroach finally dies which is a bit silly for what amounts to one of the weakest opponents in the game. As the characters advance, they face tougher opponents with more hit points and finally armor which all makes combat last even longer.

But here's the thing, combat isn't that exciting. The ranges for combat are close, medium, and long which is all very abstract, so there's there's really not a whole lot going on in regards to movement or using the environment. Most fights end up devolving into everyone getting into their respective range bands and whaling on one another until someone falls down. For the amount of times people are expected to employ violence in Fallout, it's just not that fun.
 

We play a LOT of 2d20. Prolly in my top 3 fav systems ever made.

Playing Infinity, which is sci-fi/cyberpunk = and the combat is far from clunky. It is the only system just about ever made that can have tactical combat alongside social attacks alongside hacking - and make it all work without side/minigames that take players out of the group.

Combat tends to be swift and decisive, with plenty of options for players and GMs to add to the fiction organically through its Momentum and Heat mechanics.

This system is soooo many lightyears ahead of D&D and Pathfinder and GURPS ...imho :)
 

It didn't seem agile, it's not fast (by 2020s RPG standards, sure it's a lot faster than Rolemaster or something), it's just not exciting. And there's too much hard work involved for it to be like that. Even 5E feels a lot more actually fun to play - or did for us, which is saying something. We did like the pregens though!

We kinda came across the opposite feels. Daggerheart was tedious and unabalanaced and very much no-fun to play at all.

Where as combat in Conan and Infinity both 2d20 were far more action-packed, gripping. And 2d20 has a LOT more player agency that Daggerheart and any other trad game like D&D or GURPS...

I mean, in Conan I was able to take out one group of street thugs just by smashing barrels of beer and screaming and waving my sword around like a lunatic (not having actually attacked anyone lololol) :D
 


Not to get too off topic, but I wonder why you say this.
I will tread lightly, as I don't want to derail... but in an attempt to stay on topic i will try to demonstrate where 2d20 succeeds as a system and Daggerheart fails (for us)=

Daggerheart has no player-choice for generating Hope and Fear. The metacurrency of the game is entirely dependent on luck of the roll. This leads to common problems we have seen in every daggerheart game session. If you roll Fear a few times in a row (success on roll or not) = you generate no Hope, with prevents you from using most aspects of a character, and prevents using player agency options for Hope spends. This happened 100% of all scenes to at least 1 player or more. Since most scenes only need about 3 rolls per player, it meant that every scene 1 or more players were unable to do much besides the most basics. not fun at all.
- Daggerheart has no mechanic to overcome this problem. And we saw it happen enough that it impeded fun in play.

Further, Daggerheart generates Fear per-player. Which given a nearly 50-50 chance of rolling with Fear most of the time, that meant that after 2 rounds of play the GM already had more Fear than they could spend. They could choose to spend it, but then the game became punishing and very much no fun at all.
- Daggerheart has no mechanic to overcome this problem. And we saw it happen enough that it impeded fun in play.

TL/DR = we have seen this enough in other people's games and online games that we don't think its uncommon, though we do think its often ignored since it seems some players are used to "roll, fail, nothing happens" so they are caught up in the high chance of success of the rolls, more than the use of Hope and Fear.
So for us, the Hope and Fear mechanics broke the game, because in too many cases the high success rate made the Hope and Fear problem worse as players who rolled Hope often, overly overly dominated the scene (since that allows them to use their abilities so much more than others)
...

2d20 Also grants players Momentum (metacurrency) based on rolls. The difference being major - it is not a 50-50 Momentum to Heat result. Heat is not generated by player rolls (with the rare exception of sorcery in Conan). So EVERY roll has a chance to generate Momentum by merely rolling number of success beyond the DR. Difficulty Ratings (DR) range from 0 to 5. With most being 1, 2 or 3. Dice are rolled at often Target Numbers of 10 to 14, we tend to see 30% to 50% of every die coming up a success. (even more so if the die comes up a "1") Since 2 to 5 dice are rolled, we tend to see players succeed on the roll AND generate Momentum. For systems that use Damage dice d6s, additional Momentum is gained on the Damage Die roll. Then there are Talents each system has which auto-grant 1 or more Momentum on a successful roll. It also has a few options for players to gain Momentum outside of dice rolls. Usually its "start action with 1 momentum automatically or some variant of that.
  • The net result is that most every roll generates 1 to 4 momentum.
  • additionally 2d20 has a Group Momentum pool you can add to. So this allows players to ensure everyone has Momentum to spend and gives players who generate a lot of Momentum an incentive and means to share the wealth so to speak. (you can only keep so much person Momentum, so any extra is wasted, might as well toss it into the Group Pool...)

The second part is that abilities and Talents often do not require Momentum to use in 2dd20. Instead most all spells, powers, and techniques have a core effect that is just useful and cool, and then you get to bump it up or customize it with Momentum spends.
- This led to players always being able to use all aspects of their character, and it became more of "how big do you go this time" kind of fun.

On to Heat...
Heat in 2d20 is generated two ways, at the start of a session, a pool of 2 or 3 per PC. The GM gets more when players, who are out of Momentum or want to do a risky tactic, offer to give the GM 1 or more Heat to do whatever it is the system allows. This goes a LONG ways towards ensuring 2d20 never has the problem Daggerheart has
- players can always have 'Momentum', thus they can always use all their special abilities. its just that sometimes it has a price.

...............

TL/DR = 2d20 is a game where players are in control of the flow of Metacurrency.
While dice rolls are the main generator of the Momentum, it is not the only way.
While the GM starts with Heat, the players from that point on "press their luck" and grant more, but also get to do more.
2d20 is far more rewarding of the flow of metacurrency.

Also, have you seen the Momentum spends in Conan? shoot howdy does that game do some bombastic and neat stuff!!! :D
 

It's a fiddly and rather meta system which has unexciting mechanics, and doesn't have the "cinematic action" it proposes that it is about. That's not to say the mechanics produce bad results. They don't - though they don't produce particularly exciting ones either.
We ran a long Star Trek one-off and this was our experience as well. It's been awhile, but recall the skill system not working how he wanted and the meta aspects too overbearing. I remember thinking how badly I wanted to just play Savage Worlds instead.
 

We ran a long Star Trek one-off and this was our experience as well. It's been awhile, but recall the skill system not working how he wanted and the meta aspects too overbearing. I remember thinking how badly I wanted to just play Savage Worlds instead.
In my last Fallout campaign, there were a few sessions where the players just didn't consider using Action Points (Momentum). They'd be maxed out a 6, but either wouldn't think about it or decided not to use what they saw as a precious resource.
 

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