D&D General Modrons should be terrifying

bloodtide

Legend
Modrons fit just fine as any robot, robotic or cyborg, cybernetic race.

Modrons work great for a 'modern horror' flavor, even more the cross over between science, technology, magic and reality. The bizarre ideas that "cyberspace" is a "real dimension" and so forth.

With Planescape in general, Modrons fit very nicely in Steampunk Clockwork Horror. There is not much in this, but Doctor Who has touched on it in a show or two.
 

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I always thought there should be a swarm of the lower level modrons
We're not talking 'one act of evil'. We're talking about beings forcibly assimilating people into servitude and depriving them of free will as part of a galactic pogrom.

That's not 'neutral'.



'Neutral' does not mean 'cares for sick puppies, and does the odd murder here or there'.

It means you're ambivalent, and lack the level of altruism required to go out of your way to help others, and equally have sufficient morality to avoid harming other people.

Most people are neutral. Living a life, having a family, seeking to better themselves, etc without harming others, or going out of their way to help others either.
That is not really neutral if you look at actual neutral outsiders in D&D.

  1. Slaad infect you with a chest burster--you suffer to give birth to a new slaad, but there is no indication either slaad enjoys your suffering.--neutral.
  2. Rilmani acts like your buddy and then stabs you in the back "when balance demands it"--too bad for all that emotional and physical suffering, but there is no indication the rilmani enjoys it--neutral.
  3. Modrons march through your town and level it, but the modrons don't enjoy your unhappiness at being homeless--neutral.
Thus, based on actual D&D neutral outsiders, neutral means that when you do bad things to someone, it is just business.
On the other hand, the yugoloth savors the look on your face when it betrays you, your howl of anguish when the devil claims your soul is music to its ears, and the demon probably took a minute to play jump rope with your intestines. Love of suffering is evil. Of course, that lends the question of what if you enjoy the suffering of an evil being (like a fiend), but the Pit has plenty of space for people who guessed wrong on that question. :devilish:

A lot of the game is "creature (or character) A hurting creature B", and that really needs to be where alignment starts. When is it acceptable to hurt creature B is law-chaos stuff and how do you feel about it is good-evil stuff.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
An older thread, but an interesting premise. Modrons have never really hit for me, in part because they’re just too darned goofy-looking for my tastes. Taking a more horrific approach with them sounds more appealing, if done well.

One idea I’ve played around with in my head relating to modrons is to go a bit meta with them. Why are the extraplanar embodiments of order shaped like polyhedrons? Well, because the laws of D&D’s reality are governed by polyhedral dice, of course. In a world where God objectively does play dice, modrons make a lot of sense as His angelic host. We have a tendency to think of dice as “random” and therefore “chaotic,” but they are ultimately governed by probability, which can be thoroughly analyzed and understood. There’s something appealing to me about the idea that modrons understand the fundamentally probabilistic nature of the reality they exist in, and treat the universe as a statistics problem to be solved.
 
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EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
An older thread, but an interesting premise. Modrons have never really hit for me, in part because they’re just too darned goofy-looking for my tastes. Taking a more horrific approach with them sounds more appealing, if done well.
While I dunno if I went full "horror" (horror really ain't my bag), I tried to make the modrons I included in an adventure in Jewel of the Desert legitimately concerning. Their instantaneous "upgrade to leader when leader is killed" effect was kind of scary, and given they were included amongst other creepy/weird/disturbing extraplanar-invasion stuff, I suppose some implied horror was present there.

My notion for the present is that they are....maybe "employed" is the right word....as the universe's active defense mechanism against incursions external to reality. (Psionic power is the passive mechanism, but such forces are rare on this specific planet.) The macrophage equivalent, where psionic power acts like antibodies. As a result, they can be rather single-minded in their pursuit of cleansing or quarantine, which meant a fight against the PCs was inevitable.

If my players ever venture outside the world they live on (which could happen!), there's some more stuff to learn about the modrons. Being what they are, they don't really feel anything about the party having killed some of their number, since the party went on to successfully contain the "error" and, mostly accidentally, made all of the bad Far Realm stuff disappear along with the reality-fractures.

One idea I’ve played around with in my head relating to modrons to go a bit meta with them. Why are the extraplanar embodiments of order shaped like polyhedrons? Well, because the laws of D&D’s reality are governed by polyhedral dice, of course. In a world where God objectively does play dice, modrons make a lot of sense as His angelic host.
Y'know, I hadn't considered that angle, but I can see it. Too bad there aren't any icosahedral ones. Or perhaps that's what Primus is?

We have a tendency to think of dice as “random” and therefore “chaotic,” but they are ultimately governed by probability, which can be thoroughly analyzed and understood. There’s something appealing to me about the idea that modrons understand the fundamentally probabilistic nature of the reality they exist in, and treat the universe as a statistics problem to be solved.
Yeah, "chaos" is tricky, as is "random." In math, "chaos" is purely deterministic, but when used as a thematic-archetypal concept, "chaos" is more like...active un-patterning, where any time a pattern might form it gets crushed immediately. Such a thing is unnatural and requires active effort to maintain.

That said, statistics brings in a very interesting side to this: namely, that statistical analysis requires that you work only in large numbers. You can't see individuals in most contexts, because individuals are sample sizes of 1, which makes many statistical formulae break. I could see some of the "comedy" and jankiness of modrons arising from their need to actually work with individual people, but their bumbling ineptitude at actually predicting the behavior of a single person. To them, individuals are like single atoms in brownian motion, and they're trying to squeeze absolute determinism out of something that might not actually have it. This could, perhaps, explain the Modron March. They need mass data to collect and analyze.
 

I gained a new appreciation for modrons after I read The Metal Monster by A.E. Merritt. He did a good job creating an alien species that is composed of cubes, globes, and tetrahedrons. I would wager that was the inspiration for modrons in the first place.

EtA: The alien city is rather evocative. Also, guns work. Which, IIRC, is a relief to the adventurer of the story. Short lived when he realized the target-ammunition ratio, however.
 

RealAlHazred

Frumious Flumph (Your Grace/Your Eminence)
I gained a new appreciation for modrons after I read The Metal Monster by A.E. Merritt. He did a good job creating an alien species that is composed of cubes, globes, and tetrahedrons. I would wager that was the inspiration for modrons in the first place.
I don't know. They really look like they were inspired by a DM who lacked monster minis but had plenty of dice around...
 

Mind of tempest

(he/him)advocate for 5e psionics
While I dunno if I went full "horror" (horror really ain't my bag), I tried to make the modrons I included in an adventure in Jewel of the Desert legitimately concerning. Their instantaneous "upgrade to leader when leader is killed" effect was kind of scary, and given they were included amongst other creepy/weird/disturbing extraplanar-invasion stuff, I suppose some implied horror was present there.

My notion for the present is that they are....maybe "employed" is the right word....as the universe's active defense mechanism against incursions external to reality. (Psionic power is the passive mechanism, but such forces are rare on this specific planet.) The macrophage equivalent, where psionic power acts like antibodies. As a result, they can be rather single-minded in their pursuit of cleansing or quarantine, which meant a fight against the PCs was inevitable.

If my players ever venture outside the world they live on (which could happen!), there's some more stuff to learn about the modrons. Being what they are, they don't really feel anything about the party having killed some of their number, since the party went on to successfully contain the "error" and, mostly accidentally, made all of the bad Far Realm stuff disappear along with the reality-fractures.


Y'know, I hadn't considered that angle, but I can see it. Too bad there aren't any icosahedral ones. Or perhaps that's what Primus is?


Yeah, "chaos" is tricky, as is "random." In math, "chaos" is purely deterministic, but when used as a thematic-archetypal concept, "chaos" is more like...active un-patterning, where any time a pattern might form it gets crushed immediately. Such a thing is unnatural and requires active effort to maintain.

That said, statistics brings in a very interesting side to this: namely, that statistical analysis requires that you work only in large numbers. You can't see individuals in most contexts, because individuals are sample sizes of 1, which makes many statistical formulae break. I could see some of the "comedy" and jankiness of modrons arising from their need to actually work with individual people, but their bumbling ineptitude at actually predicting the behavior of a single person. To them, individuals are like single atoms in brownian motion, and they're trying to squeeze absolute determinism out of something that might not actually have it. This could, perhaps, explain the Modron March. They need mass data to collect and analyze.
I have seen things that have rolled with the idea of machines who exist to clear out an area of problems, not evil or malicious their goal is all that matters and will rip everything apart in the area.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Y'know, I hadn't considered that angle, but I can see it. Too bad there aren't any icosahedral ones. Or perhaps that's what Primus is?
No reason we have to limit ourselves to the polytopes presented in the Monster Manual. We could always homebrew an icosodrone if we want one.
Yeah, "chaos" is tricky, as is "random." In math, "chaos" is purely deterministic, but when used as a thematic-archetypal concept, "chaos" is more like...active un-patterning, where any time a pattern might form it gets crushed immediately. Such a thing is unnatural and requires active effort to maintain.
We might even imagine that in this take on modrons, they don’t believe there’s really such thing as true “chaos” in this sense, and that what appears to be chaos is only so because the observer lacks sufficient data to predict it accurately.
That said, statistics brings in a very interesting side to this: namely, that statistical analysis requires that you work only in large numbers. You can't see individuals in most contexts, because individuals are sample sizes of 1, which makes many statistical formulae break. I could see some of the "comedy" and jankiness of modrons arising from their need to actually work with individual people, but their bumbling ineptitude at actually predicting the behavior of a single person. To them, individuals are like single atoms in brownian motion, and they're trying to squeeze absolute determinism out of something that might not actually have it. This could, perhaps, explain the Modron March. They need mass data to collect and analyze.
I love that. I could see modrons being confounded and frustrated by individuals because they are by nature unpredictable and therefore the closest anything comes to “true chaos.” Doing everything they can to work in terms of trends and large data sets to eliminate individual variables as statistically insignificant.
 

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