Mongol

[StreamOfTheSky]

I just assumed hand to hand was cheaper to film, and chalked it up to budget pinches. Besides, I'm sure Mongols fought in other ways besides whole armies of cavalry archers, so I kind of liked them mixing the units used up a bit. That said, the amount of cav archers throughout the movie was far too small.

As for the "Ninjas," I was a little surprised by their face mask helmets, too. I think the point of them was simply to do a fiegned retreat after fighting a while, so the archers could pick off the pursuers, as a sort of "quickie" demonstration of Genghis Khan's most well-known tactic on the part of the film makers. I don't think the point was for them to seem like some kind of 733+ Ninjas, taking on the entire army themselves. I couldn't help but notice though...when the ambush was launched, weren't the "Ninjas" also getting killed by their own friends' archer fire? Sure looked like it...

 

[mmadsen]

I just assumed hand to hand was cheaper to film, and chalked it up to budget pinches.

Agreed.

I think the point of them was simply to do a fiegned retreat after fighting a while, so the archers could pick off the pursuers, as a sort of "quickie" demonstration of Genghis Khan's most well-known tactic on the part of the film makers.

It's a bit odd to demonstrate the famous Mongol feigned retreat without any mounted archers shooting backward though.

I don't think the point was for them to seem like some kind of 733+ Ninjas, taking on the entire army themselves.

They certainly seemed like they were supposed to 733+ to me, with their special armor/costumes, the twin scimitars, etc.

I couldn't help but notice though...when the ambush was launched, weren't the "Ninjas" also getting killed by their own friends' archer fire? Sure looked like it...

They were definitely getting shot down alongside the enemy, and I wasn't sure what the point was supposed to be.

Of course, I wasn't sure why they were leading the enemy toward footmen either.

 

[Mark]

It's a bit odd to demonstrate the famous Mongol feigned retreat without any mounted archers shooting backward though.

It was my understanding that innovation came from Temudgin, hence having he himself doing it when he and Borte were chased and probably saving it as something he'll implement in the next movie which will deal more with his reign as Khan.

Here's a site I found, too -

http://www.mongolfilm.ru/site/en/genghiskhan/

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

It was my understanding that innovation came from Temudgin, hence having he himself doing it when he and Borte were chased and probably saving it as something he'll implement in the next movie which will deal more with his reign as Khan.

Perhaps, though I'm not sure. I know many of the cavalry fighting and basic survival techniques used by the Mongols were first pioneered by the Huns, and the History Channel recently had an episode on ancient ballistics. In one part, they went to Hungary where some world renowned archer was practicing the Hun's techniques for archery fire, and they entioned stories of the Hun cav archers firing at the Romans as they "retreated." So this tactic was likely already around.

Side note: Everyone who can should find that episode if possible, it was awesome. The aforementioned Hungarian archer even gave a justification for the 6 second combat round! He shot at point blank range (as in the feat range) a dozen targets tossed in front of him, hitting every single one in just over 17 seconds (ie, 4 attacks per round). Sure, it was short range, but he also didn't miss, even on his 4th iterative.
He then demonstrated the full usage of the Hun techniques, speeding around on horseback at 22 mph and hitting all 6 moving targets at point blank range in about 10 seconds, rounding the target area and firing in different arcs.

 

[Mark]

Perhaps, though I'm not sure. I know many of the cavalry fighting and basic survival techniques used by the Mongols were first pioneered by the Huns, and the History Channel recently had an episode on ancient ballistics. In one part, they went to Hungary where some world renowned archer was practicing the Hun's techniques for archery fire, and they entioned stories of the Hun cav archers firing at the Romans as they "retreated." So this tactic was likely already around.

Yup. That was a good episode. I wasn't saying that Temudgin invented the tactic but rather that he brought it to the Mongols and implemented it as a military tactic. Mongols had skirmish tactics to some degree but had no huge armies until his time.


Finally saw the movie and liked it quite a bit. Somewhat slow in parts but I think that was a stylistic choice by the director who was probably trying to utilize the environment as its own character. I think he was fairly successful in that regard. The casting of the leads was tremendous. Cinematically, the movie was stunning and you certainly do get the idea that there was very little place to hide despite how broad the landscape could be. That caravan destination/border town will certainly be modeled for my gaming.