D&D 3E/3.5 Monk 3.5

[RigaMortus2]

You could also take Improved Natural Attack, that is a Core feat from the MM I believe...

 

[Darklone]

Actually... I'm clearly in the "Dex is not too high on the priority list" for monks... yet we've had a female monk in one of our games... her char joined at level 5... we had another newbie at level 6 (ftr/rog archer), my bbn/rog/bard4 multiclass... and the OLD members of the group, ftr 10 (with a sorcerer7 henchman), wizard7/clr4 and clr9.

The Weapon Finesse monk had stats at about 12, 18, 14, 14, 17, 14... (don't get jealous, my char had better stats and the fighter easily topped him... 2nd edition conversion rules suck). She had a horribly hard time... yet a Mage armor from my bard and she kicked butt if someone helped her to flank. Her damage got higher and higher the higher she leveled... her stunning fist was used as often as possible. And yupp, being stunned is bad for fightertypes... dropping weapons and all that. Then my bard grabbed the dropped stuff with his off-hand whip (animate rope was one of my favorites).

Aaaww. Strangely, this severely underpowered monk did much better in that campaign as other monks with comparable level (with their group members) fared elsewhere.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The Weapon Finesse monk had stats at about 12, 18, 14, 14, 17, 14... (don't get jealous, my char had better stats and the fighter easily topped him... 2nd edition conversion rules suck). She had a horribly hard time... yet a Mage armor from my bard and she kicked butt if someone helped her to flank. Her damage got higher and higher the higher she leveled... her stunning fist was used as often as possible. And yupp, being stunned is bad for fightertypes... dropping weapons and all that. Then my bard grabbed the dropped stuff with his off-hand whip (animate rope was one of my favorites).

High Dex works okay here only because the Wis is also sky high. Finesse generates lots of hits. Wis generates lots of failed Fort saves. Going for flanks meant a big advantage for the team when the lucky Stun occurs, as there is someone standing right there to upload a full iterative attack on the poor Stunned Flanked opponent.

This may well be an optimal Monk in a party with superior teamwork.

For those with a bit less party spirit, a lesser Str tends to be frustrating because of the damage. And I have noticed some players get also frustrated with Stun, even when it happens, because it does not directly help the Monk herself. :\

 

[Demoquin]

How does Stun not help out the monk? If the fighter is stupid enough to try to pick up the dropped weapon, why not trip him on the AoO? You get a free hit (if the trip succeeds) and +4 AB to boot. Then, when he tries to get up from prone next round, stun him again with the same +4 AB since he is still prone.

 

[Darklone]

High Dex works okay here only because the Wis is also sky high.

Sounds logical, hadn't thought about that. So high dex monks are ok if their Wis is comparable? The monk in question had a nice damage output, considering that she was 5 levels behind the frontline characters of the group. Granted, the damage would have been lots higher with more strength... but that AC 21 with Mage armor (and higher later with some other items/buffs) kept her alive.

Finesse generates lots of hits. Wis generates lots of failed Fort saves. Going for flanks meant a big advantage for the team when the lucky Stun occurs, as there is someone standing right there to upload a full iterative attack on the poor Stunned Flanked opponent.

Sneak attacks.... see class combos above... did I mention my dude went TWF?

This may well be an optimal Monk in a party with superior teamwork.

Interesting. Well, the three "noobs" (including myself) often had to save the big dudes. Go figure about who worked together

For those with a bit less party spirit, a lesser Str tends to be frustrating because of the damage. And I have noticed some players get also frustrated with Stun, even when it happens, because it does not directly help the Monk herself. :\

Well, this was 3.0 in it's early days without supplements (and this group wouldn't have used it, kinda German diaglos)...

The chars were pretty suboptimal built... sword and board fighter, multiclass cleric/wizard ... my bbn1/rog2/bard4 was considered to be a powergamermunchkinbuild

The monks damage was pretty ok compared with the rest, several attacks with d8 damage, +1 str and usually my bards song as well... the ftr/rog archer had two or later three shots with similar damage.

It only got frustrating when we did the chaingang dance against two kytons.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

How does Stun not help out the monk? If the fighter is stupid enough to try to pick up the dropped weapon, why not trip him on the AoO? You get a free hit (if the trip succeeds) and +4 AB to boot. Then, when he tries to get up from prone next round, stun him again with the same +4 AB since he is still prone.

Well, it surely does...from my and your POV. But other players do not always perceive it that way.

The big boon seemingly goes to other PCs in the party, particularly Rogues, who get to wail away on a Dex-less opponent. If your teamwork is weak, e.g. the Monk ran ahead of the party once initiative was rolled, you do not necessarily observe this boon.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Sounds logical, hadn't thought about that. So high dex monks are ok if their Wis is comparable?

More like Str matters less with lots of hits, a high Wis, and good teamwork. Then you do not always have to rely on your own raw damage output to dispatch enemies.

Comparable is not so much the issue. It is getting the hits, so that dangerous foes are forced to roll Fort saves against Stun.

A Monk that lacks good teamwork in his party must kill things herself. This is significantly harder without a good Str.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

For some reason, I can't shake the desire to play an Old or Venerable monk with Zen Archery...Specifically, a gunfighter in my D&D-in-Spaaaaace! game.
=

 

[SlagMortar]

It has been alluded to, but not said straight out. Since it sounds like the original poster is in a large party with plenty of spell casters, it should be pointed out that monks have the most to benefit from spellcaster buffs.
Mage armor helps to give great AC.
Enlarge provides a damage boost on all attacks in flurrly and improves trip, grapple, disarm, and grants attacks of opportunity from reach to be taken advantage of with combat reflexes.
Bardic music improved to hit bonus and damage for all attacks in a flurry.
Likewise, bless and prayer improve all attacks in a flurry.
Barkskin from a druid allow the monk to use the amulet slot for something other than amulet of natural armor.
Polymorph allows the monk to continue using all its normal abilities - trip, grapple, sky high saves, Wisdom + monk bonus to AC.

Look through the lists of any spellcasters in the party and encourage them to take spells that will help you out, as long as they enjoy a team oriented game.

 

[The Grackle]

At lower levels, I would recommend a monk w/twf, a quarterstaff, and lot of oils of Shillelagh.