D&D 3E/3.5 Monk 3.5

[Legildur]

Far better to go high Str and save the feat, don't you think?

Truth!

I'd also stick the 16 in Strength and remain human for the bonus feat and skill points.

Unless you were expected to fill a front line position, then half-orc would make sense.

 

[Tclynch]

Thanks! You've given me alot to think about!

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

But going Weapon Finesse, you have a single stat affecting your offense and defense. A 12 Str monk with 20 Dex will have +5 to attack, AC and Reflex saves.

That seems like a good idea at first, but it is a choice that many (most?) end up regretting.

Defense is the Monk's forte. Reinforcing a strength is not always the way to go.

It takes a lot of patience and teamwork to make a heavy defense PC fun to play in my experience. It can be done, but I do not recommend it unless you really know what you are doing, and can plan offensive tactics that will yield pleasant bounties.

 

[Particle_Man]

Just to be contrary...

I *love* deflect arrows!

DM: You get missed, missed, and hit for 12 damage!

Me: Deflect Arrows! No damage!

DM:

 

[Darklone]

Just to be contrary...

I *love* deflect arrows!

DM: You get missed, missed, and hit for 12 damage!

Me: Deflect Arrows! No damage!

DM:

Well, my archers know it like this:
"You hit, hit and hit. Ah and another hit from Haste. But he has Deflect Arrows!!"

Not good for the monk who needs a lot of things to have a good AC.

 

[Nail]

It takes a lot of patience and teamwork to make a heavy defense PC fun to play in my experience.

Seconded.

Defence just isn't as fun as offence -- you end up feeling as if you are contributing nothing to the over-all combat. In fact, a defensive PC often makes the party's defence weaker over-all.

Tclynch, looking at the stats you posted (and thinking it over a bit more), I'd be tempted to go this route:

Half-orc Mnk 4

hp 29 AC 14 Mv 40ft

Atk +7 (1d8 +4) or Flurry of Blows +5/+5 (1d8+4)

Str 18 (+2 racial adj.)
Dex 14 (+1 level adj.)
Con 12
Int 8 (-2 racial adj.)
Wis 14
Cha 6 (-2 racial adj.)

Feats:

• Mnk 1 bonus feat: Improved Unarmed Strike
• Mnk 1 bonus feat: Stunning Fist
• normal 1st level character feat (from MM): Ability Focus (Stunning Fist)
• Mnk 2 bonus feat: Combat Reflexes
• normal 3rd level character feat: Improved Grapple

Skills:

• Listen +9
• Spot +9
• Tumble +9

Items: You should have item wealth equal to 5,400gp. If you have a mage willing to buff you with Mage Armor, that's great, otherwise you'll want to get some Bracers of Armor +2. Consider a Cloak of Resistance +1, and some potions of Enlarge (which have the wrong price listed in the DMG -- it should be 50 gp), Bull's Strength, and/or Cure Light Wounds.

__Strategy__
This monk is *not* a front-line Ftr! Keep your melee restricted to one opponent at a time, ideally with another PC flanking. Use Flurry of Blows, as your Str means every hit does reasonable damage. Use your speed plus tumbling to get into position...but be careful! ...with your low AC you'll burn through your hp fast if more than one opponent can concentrate on you.

When attacking, use stunning fist! The Fort DC is 16, which means (CR 4) opponents should fail about 40% of the time. As discussed above, Stunning Fist works great against mooks and wizards, rather than the BBEG Melee Monster.

You can grapple, but only do so against humaniod opponents, and only when "icing" the competition is a good thing (like against a spell-caster).

 

[Technik4]

Well, I'm limited to what's in the core books, so none of the fancy stuff

Here is my Monk-

4 level (started out higher as group has been playing for a while)

Str- 12 Dex-14 Con-13 Int-10 Wis-16 Cha-8

(stats in this game are not rolled, every character starts with same stats)

I took a
Quarterstaff and Sling

Feats- Dodge, Mobility, Cobat Reflexes, Improved Grapple, Iron Will, Deflect Arrows, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stealthy

Wound up with 29 Hit Points and a 15 AC

Opinions? Suggestions? Constructive Crit?

8,10,12,13,14,16

Those are not great stats for a monk character. But here is what I would do:

Human, Dex-'Monk'ey4
Hp: 33, AC: 15, Init: +3
Movement: 40 ft.
Atk: +6 (1d8) or Flurry of Blows +4/+4 (1d8)

Str 10
Dex 16
Con 14 (+1 level adj)
Int 12
Wis 14
Cha 8

Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Finesse
Bonus Monk Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist (DC 14, 4x per day), Combat Reflexes (3 additional AoO)

This would be a great build for a campaign that has a lot of non-combat challenges. For Skill Points you have 6 skills you can max which lets you play a back-up rogue (though not a face-man) or you can spread them around (like I always seem to do) like this:

4th level (42 skill points)
Climb (Str) 5 + 0 = +5
Hide (Dex) 5 + 3 = +8
Jump (Str) 5 + 0 = +5
Listen (Wis) 5 + 2 = +7
Move Silently (Dex) 5 + 3 = +8
Sense Motive (Wis) 5 + 2 = +7
Spot (Wis) 5 + 2 = +7
Tumble (Dex) 7 + 3 = +10

Out of combat you are a grim man who doesn't say much, but a great judge of character who can make reasonably intelligent guesses about plots/riddles. In combat you can tumble around the battle, flanking foes. Fighting Defensively is a good option because you get an additional +3 AC for your -4 attack (practically on par with Combat Expertise).

Any way you slice it, the 16 needs to go towards your attribute that attacks - either Str or Dex. If you had 2 16s (or even a 15) then I think my build would be much stronger with the higher Wisdom (15+1 at 4th level to 16).

I like Nail's build better as a human too - you end up with a lower attack bonus (but the human's bonus feat could be Weapon Focus - Unarmed Strike so you're really only missing 1 point of damage per swing), but can max 2 more skills (or spread them around). I find that the jump from 16 Str to 18 is critical with 2-handed weapon users, not characters like monks (and thus not worth the Half-Orc commitment of -2 stats overall).

 

[Nail]

This would be a great build for a campaign that has a lot of non-combat challenges.

Sure.

In a campaign with even a moderate number of combat challenges, your build would be really poor and disapointing, I'm afraid. Your Mnk's attacks miss a bit more, your Stunning Fist isn't as good, and you do _alot_ less damage per attack (and the Mnk is already low on the totem pole of damage/round). Being a "skill monkey" isn't the Mnk's forte.....leave that to the Rog.

A human (for the xtra feat and skill point) would be okay, but there are few really "monk-worthy" feats available at 1st level. Improved Initiative might be nice, or Improved Grapple, I suppose.

Perhaps a better bet still would be Dwarf, for the Con and saves and darkvision.

 

[Technik4]

In a campaign with even a moderate number of combat challenges, your build would be really poor and disapointing, I'm afraid.

Lol, really? How so? He has -1 to hit compared to your build and didn't cheese Stunning Fist DCs, but he has more hp, a better initiative, and more skill points. He would be a rogue's best friend. If you're talking about characters purely from their ability to knock out opponents, I agree your build is better but come on...this is D&D, not a computer game.

An even better variation with the human may be to take your first level as a rogue - the sneak attack can compensate for the lower strength and your skill points go through the roof!

 

[Darklone]

Nail, what about taking Weapon Focus instead of Imp Grapple at third level? That monk needs everything he can get to hit better... I'd suggest potions of Magic Fang if available.